| Horatio (213.113.172.227) |
2004-02-06 08:56:47 |
| gg |
| |
|
| error (213.114.96.111) |
2004-03-17 00:34:04 |
| Nice to see that Hagges amazing tp pays off. Holding crucial areas and killing rls while his teammates spawnrape. Very nice to see. I wonder how long hyphen can keep this star player.. |
| |
|
| Hagge (217.210.145.76) |
2004-03-17 00:38:52 |
| until sr makes their bid :E gg's 4k! u were really tough on cmt4 but we made it! :) |
| |
|
| Hagge (217.210.145.76) |
2004-03-17 00:55:45 |
| sucky haggedemos if anyone want.. the end of e1m2 is actually quite a fragfest :l |
| |
|
| znappe (213.114.180.231) |
2004-03-17 02:51:03 |
| all ping :< splif owns *.*
|
| |
|
| error (213.114.96.111) |
2004-03-17 03:06:24 |
| yea a bit unfair pings. maybe sv_minping 40? |
| |
|
| sweeper (80.166.106.54) |
2004-03-17 09:14:56 |
| splifeh? what happened? ;/ |
| |
|
| Hagge (212.181.114.33) |
2004-03-17 11:17:00 |
| why minping? :) we played at the best server for 4k! I even agreed to play with 26 ms zzz? :< |
| |
|
| Angua (212.181.55.76) |
2004-03-17 11:41:43 |
| Because minping 40 is the new standard!!! |
| |
|
| spliffy (81.6.216.108) |
2004-03-17 12:41:08 |
| true zn/\pe, fair pings i wuda had 200 frags + each map l;]
needed u specin thru qiz cheerleadin for me sweep ;/ |
| |
|
| HangTime (212.140.173.250) |
2004-03-17 13:07:26 |
| You need rcon to set sv_minping. Besides, I offered to play this game on a UK server anyway :) |
| |
|
| error (213.114.96.95) |
2004-03-17 14:26:16 |
| thx for the info ht, I didnt know that. Also nice to see some sportsmanship! |
| |
|
| blAze (212.125.240.238) |
2004-03-17 18:42:25 |
| minping is the lamest invention ever. Finding a fair server is one thing, making the game purposefully unplayable is another. |
| |
|
| f]sniper (66.218.45.8) |
2004-03-17 20:18:04 |
| 40 ping is unplayable? =/. |
| |
|
| Hagge (217.210.145.76) |
2004-03-17 23:26:17 |
| yea 40 is totally unplayable :<<<< |
| |
|
| blAze (212.125.240.238) |
2004-03-18 01:16:22 |
| More unplayable than something less in any case. With the same principle we should have m_maxdpi 400 on the server because otherwise logitech mouse users might have advantage over ms mouse users.
I mean, the line has to be drawn somewhere, and when you start creating functions in the server software of which sole purpose is to reduce the gaming experience, imho you have crossed that line. |
| |
|
| blAze (212.125.240.238) |
2004-03-18 01:18:13 |
| And yes, anything above 13/0 is unplayable and no fun at all... :) |
| |
|
| HangTime (213.208.111.197) |
2004-03-18 01:39:18 |
| blaze, you need to remember that without minping, different servers might have to be used.... would you rather play on g2n with minping 39 or without it on a server outside scandinavia (since the other clan might not agree to play in scandinavia without minping?). There will always be cases in the cases of clans with a big geographical discrepency where a fair server cannot be found; some servers give one clan the advantage whereas others are in favour of the other clan. A good example might be polish clans who often outping other clans on their servers but have a disadvantage on external servers. |
| |
|
| canius (217.210.123.206) |
2004-03-18 12:44:05 |
| i ping 39 in .pl :C |
| |
|
| Tezz (195.149.46.182) |
2004-03-18 13:33:42 |
| sv_minping is an excellent tool, it evens the game up in the easiest way possible. JAMS have had a few matches recently where we've agreed to play on an equal-ping server, but one or two people from the opposing clan refuse to play unless the match is shifted to a server where they get 13 ping. I mean, how unbelievably lame is that?
60+ is getting nasty, but otherwise it's fine. |
| |
|
| Goljat (80.221.43.154) |
2004-03-18 14:24:13 |
| ping 13,40,60 dont care i still rape n00bs k? |
| |
|
| blAze (212.125.240.238) |
2004-03-18 14:27:58 |
| @HT, I would rather play on a best server possible that is as fair as possible, than on g2n with minping, that is correct.
Do you also think that mouse dpi should be limited to maximum of 400, since you can not expect every player to purchase the latest logitech mouse? Or, if someone happens to play with serial mouse with refresh rate of 40Hz, should everyone be limited to that from the server, to be fair? No, sorry that is simply idiotic.
You're right that there are cases when finding a fair server is simply impossible, but rather than ruining the game for everyone, imho the question that should be asked is that what are clans that are located so far apart doing in the same league in the first place? You should just accept the fact that eu clans can't play vs nz clans and that's that. |
| |
|
| error (213.114.96.81) |
2004-03-18 15:08:59 |
| minping over 26 is lame. |
| |
|
| razor (217.209.67.184) |
2004-03-18 15:29:04 |
| i dont agree, i think minping is great... is it better to play on a fair "natural" server with everyone on 60ms? instead of using minping so everyone got 40... i dont understand why that would ruin the gaming experience.... and is it better to play 13 avg vs 50 avg?... if u dont enjoy playing over 13 ms i think thats not our problem (all of us that plays in south eu clans).. and saying that we should not even be in same leuage is lame, to split this little scene would not be so good... and i dont really agree with that mouse example.... to go and buy a mouse for 20 euro is a totally different thing than that all of south EU quakers should move to scandinavia |
| |
|
| blAze (207.232.162.3) |
2004-03-18 16:10:10 |
| @razor, you might have a point, except that your example situations are complete nonsense which never happen in real life. There is no such situation where the fairest avg ping server would be 13 vs 50. We have been able to play under fair conditions with .pl clans perfectly well without artificially making the game less playable.
The fact is, 95% or above of the clans are able to play with max 40 avg ping against each other without some idiotic minping settings. Imho the option for clans in the remaining 5% should be either 1) Accept the fact that you may have to play under slightly unfair ping conditions occasionally or 2) leave out.
I personally play for fun these days and playing under crap conditions is not fun in any sense, I'd rather give wo and go play povdmm4 on z or bbb because that is something i enjoy doing. |
| |
|
| razor (217.209.67.184) |
2004-03-18 16:39:54 |
| well my main point was this: 'is it better to play on a fair "natural" server with everyone on 60ms? instead of using minping so everyone got 40' .. u seem to think 40 is ok, so i dont really understand why minping is some sort of devil... i think rules says to find the fairest server possible.. and if u dislike minping so much i guess u maybe have to play some ~60 vs 60 ms games on some even souther eu servers where its maybe more even... but around 60 ms is about to get a bit high.. so whynot have fun with 40 ms with minping... lets say a fs-tvs game for example... i think it would be around 42 vs 26 avg ping on g2n in your favour.. (i dont remember if u have 42 or 26 there but lets say u got 26)... but on a german server it would probably be 26 vs 42 in our favour.. so that leaves the question what server to pick.. with minping it would be really easy to solve, but since we cant use that we maybe could play our homemaps on the different servers, but where would we play the decider.. :( i dont know.. so our option would be to try and find another server where maybe both have higher.. which i dont really understand.. |
| |
|
| Goljat (80.221.43.154) |
2004-03-18 16:40:12 |
| yeah i see that too, if clan A all players from germany and clan B and players from outside of germany and then you're on german server, but clan B get better avg ping then you should not put any minping. If sr plays against tvs on finnish server and we have avg ping 20ms and tvs has 13ms should we put minping 26 or 39? noway!
You should put to rules. for example if clan from poland play on german server against german clan and still polish clan get better avg ping then no minping, did you get it ? or do i have to say one more time :) |
| |
|
| Goljat (80.221.43.154) |
2004-03-18 16:41:50 |
| razor: i think blaze means same as me if tvs play against danish clan on danish server then you should not put any fucking minping if tvs has better ping. |
| |
|
| blAze (207.232.162.3) |
2004-03-18 16:59:18 |
| Goljat, yeah. I mean here's a real life scenario for you, you have to clans with 40ish pings on a server, except that one or two players have 28 ping. Now I'll be damned if that ain't too much to handle for your avg bunch of middle european lamers, so they insist that the gameplay for these one or two players is artificially ruined or they get wo. And that my friend, is just fucking lame.
And about the fairest server possible, imho it should be added to the rules that while seeking a fair server, it should also give as low pings as possible, sort of a compromise. So imho, playing 28 vs 42 is much better than having everyone play in brazil with 999ms. |
| |
|
| blAze (207.232.162.3) |
2004-03-18 17:00:59 |
| And you can also always switch servers mid-game to even it up if necessary. |
| |
|
| razor (217.209.67.184) |
2004-03-18 17:03:07 |
| ok i can see that point goljat, and i read the rules now: A server giving approximately equal connection conditions should be found.
they dont mentioned the word ping so i found it kinda confusing..
shall we take a geographical map and put a ruler on it and see where the exact middle of the 2 countries is then it would probably be on a swe server, so then fs games for example would often be around 50 avg vs 13-26.. ok 10mbit connections wins the qw games then i guess :) reppie got isdn and we have 3 adsl, so we are screwed vs many clans,... the only thing i want is fair and fun games for both teams |
| |
|
| razor (217.209.67.184) |
2004-03-18 17:07:11 |
| ye blaze,, i also think 42,42,42,42 would be fair vs 42,42,42,26 |
| |
|
| razor (217.209.67.184) |
2004-03-18 17:08:35 |
| but not 42,42,42,42 vs 26,26,26,26...
we have played 55,42,42,42 vs 42,26,13,13 thou and we didnt whine.. but most of the times its always the mid eu clans that will have to put up with whine and surrender |
| |
|
| razor (217.209.67.184) |
2004-03-18 17:12:42 |
| i gotta go now so i cant continue, but i think i agree with you and i see your point and understand you, but all i want in the end is fair games for both teams |
| |
|
| blAze (207.232.162.3) |
2004-03-18 17:20:48 |
| Well, I agree, 55,42,42,42 vs 42,26,13,13 is getting unfair. I have to ask though, was that the fairest server possible? I guess, maybe, in the most extreme case where server such as that would be the most fair, using minping might be considered. But not with some 10ms diff in avg ping. |
| |
|
| razor (217.209.67.184) |
2004-03-18 17:27:59 |
| ok i didnt have to go! :)
i think germany or nl should have been much more even, i dont really know why we played on g2n either..maybe cause it was just groupplay.. |
| |
|
| HangTime (212.140.173.250) |
2004-03-18 18:55:31 |
| blaze: so essentially, you would rather play fs in say germany with 39,39,39,39 and fs on 26,26,26,39 than with minping 39? Or to put it like razor does, you would rather play on a fair server where both teams are averaging 50ms, than an originally unfair server but using minping 39 where all players have 39ms?. A good example would be if a german clan plays a polish clan, for the poles one of the best servers outside poland is topsid, but the germans have a big ping advantage there. Servers inside poland lag badly for the germans, so neither is fair. Probably the fairest server ends up being in sweden or czechoslovakia, where both teams have like 52-65ms. However, if you used minping 39 on topsid, you could probably get a nice fair game with lower ping than what you would have going to a fair server that is in a rather stupid geographical location. You talk about minping artificially ruining the game.... in the above example, it does the opposite, it actually IMPROVES the ping and hence experience for the players, since without it you wouldn't even be playing there, you'd be on some lame scandinaivian server where everyone lags or a bizarre eastern/central european one. You need to realise that the use of minping is totally interchangable with changing servers.... the REASON for the pings is irrelevant, all that matters is that they are fair, be it via normal connections, qizmo re-routing or sv_minping. |
| |
|
| error (213.114.96.81) |
2004-03-18 20:56:18 |
| get better connections. a ping over 26 and i rather play povdmm4 with blaze. |
| |
|
| blAze (194.200.187.130) |
2004-03-18 23:38:11 |
| "blaze: so essentially, you would rather play fs in say germany with 39,39,39,39 and fs on 26,26,26,39 than with minping 39?"
Well, obviously I'd rather not play at all under such conditions, but if I have to, then yes no minping. If the principle is not to use minping, then even if we were in slight disadvantage in that specific game, it's quite likely we'd have similar advantage on some other so eventually it all evens out.
@error: Well said. :) |
| |
|
| HangTime (212.140.173.250) |
2004-03-19 12:22:47 |
| "get better connections" heh. Blixem has 13 ping, you want him to get a better one? Even in laggy old england I ping 26 to servers in at least 4 different countries, but with NQR I have to play with higher. E.g. vs antiquad I used a german qizmo to get 52ms on a server I normally have 26 to. |
| |
|
