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vs. Fired 
vs. Lege Artis 
vs. Apocalypse 2000 
| NQR Season 6 040118 | ||||
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Hello Quakers, fraggers and fellow brothers in arms!
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| eid | ||||
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| :) | ||||
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Nice to have a new season starting soon eventhough I do not like the system as I have stated to some in the NQR crew. Hopefully see a change next season.. GG anyway and GL! |
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Hrm, well, seems ok but for the play-off system, I don't like that at all, seems weird, artificial and unfair. EG, why should the top8 from DivC be eligable for playoffs against the top8 from DivB even though the bottom 10 of DivB in 3 cases of 4 are better than the DivC teams? And I sure would'nt call it a FA Cup system. |
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i have to agree with max, i don't see it as a very good system |
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You can see it this way: the top 8 of div5 is going to the playoffs though TEN div1/2/3/4 clans are left out while they are supposed to be better and so on. Weird? Seems like a challenge for lower divs though. |
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max rebo; probably due to the sake of the misplaced clans wich seems to appear in every season of this leage. |
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i think it sounds pretty cool...lets try it out before we start dissing it too much, shall we? :) |
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pretty weird you can only vote e2m2 or e3m6 map, because e3m7 was really popular in nqr5. :E |
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E3M7 - The Haunted Halls Times Played 59 CMT4 - Andromeda Nine (CMT Version) Times Played 53 Pretty weird :E |
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Hehe Goljat, I thought so too, but I'm biased regarding E3M7 so I let that part go. |
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agree with rullstol, E3M7 - The Haunted Halls f?r alles |
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Actually it's just a bit like clanbase ( http://www.clanbase.com/news_league.php?lid=1032 ) where you have the diffrent groups (divisions) based on how good clans are, and in the playoffs the best from each group (division) go to the playoffs... here we just give chance to clans from the divisions to face clans from other divisions. |
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There are as many oppinions as there is players about what map pool to use. So 2 sollutions is to use all maps, or few maps that all can play. Maybe just cycle 5th map every season? |
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"If teams are even on points in the table, the following will seperate the clans (in this order): 1. Map difference. 2. The game between the two clans. 3. Number of maps won. 4. Frag difference. " If you only play same team once why "3. Number of maps won. 4. Frag difference. "?? It will never be draw in number 2!!? :) |
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| I wonder how it will work. | ||||
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hangman, if there are more than two teams wit same points. |
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What, where is the whining? All is good it seems. I like what is coming up. May Rebo: I dont agree with you here because if you didnt manage to get 1st to 8th place then you just didnt play good enough. Yes, maybe those teams are better then the lower divison teams. But those also earned their right to go to playoffs by winning their games. We should get rid of thinking that a higher division clan is always and under all circumstances better than a lower division clan. I am really looking forward to those playoffs and i wonder how many "surprise" victories we will see there. Bottom line: if you wanna go to playoffs then you have to win the games in *your* division and that system is very motivating for teams from all divisions. |
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| cmt4 :( | ||||
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| dm3 :(( | ||||
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Look at division 1, you have SR, LA, CMF and FS absolutely guaranteed a place in the top8, that leaves 14 clans fighting for 4 play-off spots, which in turn means that clans such as DIVA, =X=, HF, AQ, Hyphen, HGC will potentially miss the playoffs and instead we'd have teams like (random low div2 and div 3 teams, no offence or praise intended!) Vets, SSC or FAP playing the top 8 for a place in the quarters, that's udicrous. QW is not fotball where amatuer teams sometimes win against the Premier League teams (see the flawed FA Cup analogy above), the larger the basic skillgap is the more certain it is that the better team will win. In the case of a DIV2-team (i.e ranked 19:th or worse) vs the TOP8 in div1, in a three map series with only five maps to choose from, the outcome is 99% certain, where's the fun in that? Now then, the lower divisions is of course more uncertain because of the difficulty in judging the strenght of teams, so this system might have some merit there ......................... The question I ask myself is, why not match the lower half of a division vs the higher half of the division below, while using the proposed play-off system, DIV5 1-8 plays DIV4 9-16, winner plays DIV4 1-8 and so on. This will require more playoff rounds, but if you can play two games a week in the regular season then it's surely no problem doing it in earlier rounds of the playoff. This would only leave the bottom teams of the lowest division without playoff-games. ........................ Btw, Apo, I don't like it when you try to score cheap points implying that I believe that higher division teams are "always and under all circumstances" better than lower divs when I CLEARLY wrote "in 3 cases of 4 are better than". |
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| Ludicrous not udicrous :-( | ||||
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I am pleased with the current system we have put together. But you cannot win them all...;) |
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Seems ok, atleast the new map pool is way better than last season. Pretty much like Para's column at quakeworld.nu suggested :) |
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Well - I think this will be interesting though I don't understand why the Playoff-system was changed from the version that was drawn up thursday night. That system was more like the one Max is proposing (14-10 div1 and div 2 playoff and 14-10 div3 and div 4 playoffs). I guess there's a point in having a system where Div5 clans can "potentially" win the playoffs - but I believe that 8 teams from Div1 just aren't enough. In any case - this is still a big step forward (especially if we can keep the schedule) and hopefully the lower division clans will prove everyone wrong and kick some ass in playoffs. The most important aspect (for me) remains though: relegation/promotion issues and the move to fix the division sizes and avoid reshuffling divisons each season (but I guess I'm the only one who wants to clear that up or?) ;-) |
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seems fine to me! hf/gl everyone! :) |
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Can we at least get an explanation from the admins why they've chosen this format? Discussion please! |
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i don't think it is useful to 'convince' anyone that this system is effective, for you either like it or you prefer another system. But we reached a consensus about this system on a number points: 1. It would afford an opportunity for any skill level of clan to prove itself in a playoff series, whether it be at the gold, silver, or bronze level. i see this as a something which was sadly absent from last season. 2. It allows clans which enter to vote for one of the maps to be the fifth map. there will be three maps from which to select your clan's vote; simply put, the map that receives the most votes will be used. 3. It makes the regular season games more important for purposes of seeding for each of the three playoff strands. 4. It puts more emphasis on two maps other than the tb3. If the two maps are, for the sake of explanation, cmt4 and e3m7 during the regular season of nqr6, then why not have them be available to select from in the playoffs? a five map pool is not too much to expect teams to prepare for, especially when only two are 'relatively' new to the scene. Most nqr players have an IQ higher than 100, so it shouldn't be much a stretch to say that a high standard of play could be anticipated on these two maps other than tb3. i hope so:) 5. It should be a fun season, as all clans will have a good opportunity to experience some success with this system. this is the main point for me. respectfully, xhrl |
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psst.. xhrl. the gold/silver/bronze isnt used in the above newspost ;P neither is the 3 map vote pool, only 2. |
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The map pool is fine, but I've yet to see a reason for the top8 div1-clans to fight clans 19-26, 37-44, 55-62 and 73-80 for a spot in the quarterfinals. Don't you see the absurdity of this? What if a potential top Div3 clan gets switched to Div2 in the last Admin conference , now they have no chance of play-off and instead have guaranteed spot in the lower half of div2. There was a lot of switching of clans before last season started, why shouldn't the same happen this time around ......................... The more I think about it the more incredolous I get. Bah! |
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yes, para, that is true, but i was trying to give max a sneak peek. max, just wait until you see the way the playoff pool is going to be, no more will you be incredulous, but rather you will likely see it as the james_bond of all possible playoff systems.... ok, that might be a slight hyperbole there, but you will not be unbelieving any longer:) |
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to whoever said it isn't like FA-cup... well clearly it is exactly like FA-cup. Lower ranked teams compete earlier on, and eventually the top teams enter the competition at later rounds. It gives the opportunity for some giant killing where some low ranked team beats someone from a higher div. I think we could see some interesting games - sure a div7 clan aint gonna beat a div1 clan, but then you don't see non-league teams winning the FA-cup in football. But they might beat some other higher teams on the way. |
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Kryten, The FA Cup doesn't exclude 60% of the Premier League-teams before the competition even starts, the qualifying rounds are for the amatuer teams/lowest divisions only. Also, the FA Cup is completely randomized in the drawings after each round. |
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Sounds good to me, nice work admins. |
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Why do you say FA cup? Is this an english fotball cup tournament? Its CUP, fine. Btw: It is not like the FA CUP at all, since EVERYONE is in it. This mix of division-system and cup, is....fucked, coz it is just something in between, it is not 100% cup, it is not 100% division system. That also goes for the maps, trying ONCE AGAIN to look for 2 more maps outside tb3, which is, as tolled before: IMPOSSIBLE. zzzzz :| |
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Fucking no-edit-comment page :) It should ofc be: "since EVERYONE is NOT in it" :) |
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Nice map pool, don't like the playoffs though. WHy not just a straight top 8 fight like last season? |
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| havana affair will rock | ||||
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I can't say I agree with the NQR admins on the league system / playoff issue. The system has one critical flaw that cannot pass no matter how you want to sugar coat it. The current system offers no incentive to move up to div1 for decent clans on the rise . Teams like Hellfire, Fragomatic, Fudoh, and Chopstick Ninjas that do have a shot at competing with the lower tier div1 teams greatly benefit from not going to div1 and staying in lower divs so they can make the playoffs. This effect cascades down all the way to the lower divs, and encourages even more what we saw the previous season. Powerhouse teams in lower division sweeping the playoff ranks and making everything less fun for everyone. |
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we are aware of this, and I am pretty newbie, and noone else came with better system... but in the past week I constructed a new playoff system, and talked for hours with ego/apol/xhrl/ht/aken to get feedback and input. I believe we are getting closer to something better. It might need a bit of tweaking in relation to teams pr div/teams in playoffs. But in everyone's oppinion it is definitly better than the FA CUP. Perhaps we still have time to implement it this season - if we do actually have a better system, no resaon to use a worse if we can avoid it. |
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Good point def, hopefully Para's alternate system will be implemented instead. (Squeaky wheel gets the grease!) |
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| last comment! | ||||
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| In your dreams... | ||||
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I just don't understand...just as things were moving in the right direction cmt4 is made a standard map? that is the worst map ever designed and definately the worst map to ever spectate...whatever happened to master pieces such as cmt3 / cmt5 and grim? more than one exmytdm should be included as there are many great ones out there. e1m3tdm / e2m2tdm / e3m6tdm / e3m7tdm just to mention a few. further more I reckon that nqr should include the system that they had a few seasons ago with the relegations and so forth. teams should be able to advance a division as well as move down one every season. this would definately be a punishment for inactivity etc. anyway just some quick thoughts on the matter, in the end I'm sure that this season will be just as exciting as the past ones :) |
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sexC: the relegation/promotion system has been proven to be unrealistic and inpracticle in quakeworld. too many teams die/change/are formed between seasons. |
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yeah sexC, as I mentioned before, there are probably as many oppinions about map pool as there are clans and perhaps even players. To satisfy all you would have to include all maps, that just have the sideeffect that all has to play all maps. This can be fun in some cases for some, and you can excersize that practice in ad mortem and teamup (if that ever kicks off). But that is not the case with NQR. Here we have decided to go with a smaller map pool, where the importance of each map is equal. We are however open for a cycle between 1 or 2 maps pr season. We will see as we go along. |
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7 maps would be better imho. Its not too many to learn, the most popular maps would be covered + oportunity to cycle 1-2 maps. Would have minimal impact to planned system. |
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| When will signup start? :-) | ||||
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And Max Reboo: no offense meant, as much as i like the divisions concept it hat a bad influence on teams unwilling to play each other much more than before. |
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well one good thing about the play offs is it gives smaller clans a glimpse of what its like to be specced alot in big games, bad thing of course means those clans will probably get iwned badly which is no fun to watch as a spectator, id rather watch a close div2/3 game then watch la spawn rape some newbs (taken a little out of context but you get the idea) |
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I only think it's a bit tragic that the relegation/promotion system is discarded - but it may very well be true what Kryten is saying. I guess I was hoping that a strict nqr-system with 2 seasons a year + fixed division sizes and some tough rules against new teams entering high-divisons could actually force Clans to stay alive. Too many teams are formed overnight to compete in "xxxx"-competion and then after they're knocked out they just wither and die. |
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4 seasons a year would be cool too :] |
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| i agree with everyone | ||||
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"We would really rather see some scripts banned, but we believe this is something that should be limited within mod/server/client - we don't want to play police on servers and walk through demos to see if ppl actually used scripts." ..... it can be limited by server/clients. Kfjump can be disabled by a simple command, and all advanced scripts can be disabled within the currently most used clients (mqwcl/fuhquake). Your excuse for allowing kfjump/jumpscripts is, as it stands, invalid. |
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And above can be checked with f_scripts btw. Forgot to mention that. |
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dame much text.. plz limit the comments to only 20 letter... so they are realy comments and not statements.. |
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And where, oh Tumult of the short attention span, should we then debate theese questions seeing as nqr.nu's forum is deader than a doornail? (Btw your comments was four times as long as your limit) .......................... Oh, and E2M2TDM is a tragic map, it's almost as if they've set out to make it worse than the original in every way. More on this later... |
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Max and Def have voiced what I think. You just can't do it that way, it is ludicrously unfair on clans who are weak for their division. If you finish 9th in div1, you are dead, finito; meanwhile some other clan in a lower division you would eat for breakfast 3on4 marches into the playoffs, where they get eaten for breakfast, lunch and dinner by LA. As def says, this provided NO INCENTIVE for clans to want to play in their correct division. Far and away the best way to win the tournament in this case, is to be placed in as low a division as possible in order to maximise your chances of obtaining a playoff spot. I would say SR/LA/CMF/FS/HF/DIVA have a pretty good chance of qualifying, meaning the remaining TWELVE div1 clans have to fight for TWO places. And from those 12, there will probably be some who don't have much realistic chance of making the top8, the clans which are borderline in skill with div2 clans. At the very least give these low div1 clans a chance to prove themselves against the div2 teams - let them play a preliminary round or something. If these div2 clans in 8th place are really so much better than 9th place in div1, make them prove it. You could have topdiv5 vs botdiv4, topdiv4 vs botdiv3 etc etc or something, dunno. I'm not even gonna comment about div3-5 teams being involved when div1 clans are excluded. Judging the divisions at the top end isn't too hard, basically any team placed in div1 will have a reasonable chance of beating most div2 clans. In lower division, incorrect places are much more possible. Map rules are subjective so I can leave that alone, but something as fundamental as the playoff system can't just be left in it's current state, it is actively ENCOURAGING fakenicking, clanhopping, lying to admins about activity etc etc. There is now absolutely nothing to gain from being placed in div1 unless you are one of those clans "guarenteed to make playoffs cos they have so much skill". |
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what HT suggests is in my opinion a very valid point. instead of making the 8 best go to playoffs. have some type of system that allows everyone to enter playoffs however your final position in the league should give you an advantage. hence div2 winners would have to play the lower half of div1 before being able to play the top half of div1 (assuming they win against the lower half of div1). this way everyone would get a shot at the title and no one could say that this time could have beaten that team etc... |
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as every other intelligent person has said before me. the playoff system is very unfair for clans in high divisions who finish in the bottom. Specificly as HT said;it discourages clans to move up in the system. |
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www.slackers.dk/paradoks/nqr/nqr_workprint/1.1.Season_schedule_spring_2004.txt
www.slackers.dk/paradoks/nqr/nqr_workprint/2.1.Playoffs_seedings.txt
www.slackers.dk/paradoks/nqr/nqr_workprint/2.2.Gold_Tournament.txt
The above is what I worked on and was talked about here. Try and stop talking about how bad the FA system is - we already know that. So that's pretty pointless. Your only alternative is having no playoffs at all - at least I haven't seen a proper system/schedule layed out for us to consider. So here's something for you to consider. It looks pretty good to those I talked with. Before you comment on why the bottom 3 teams from each division don't reach playoffs. Well, they didn't win enough games that's all. If all could join playoffs simply by joining then that would be pretty boring :) Here we have 3 diffrent playoffs, gold/silver/bronze. Each playoffs consist of teams from minimum 2 divisions. So should be lots of good fights imo =) In any way this is better alternative than what we have had before, so unless you can find some really major flaws - then we might use this playoff system for this season. |
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Ah bollox, I made a new newspost instead, please continue discussion there ;) http://www.nqr.nu/newscomment.php?id=122 |
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| =] | ||||
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MM in div2 is just a big joke, either have paradoks fixed a speciall connection from poland/russia directly to rakets house or something weird is going on! MM IS DIV1 FFS!!! just get real, if T is div1 then MM is div1! get real guys, not only paradoks but the whole nqr crew!! specially u aken, I know that u got some brains ;) |
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I was one of the first to comment the system and I did not agree with it as stated above. I have several times tried to talk and give advice to NQR crew but I never get that respond that I would like to. A guy that listens is Link and I really hope that TeamUp will start up. It seems like Ego shares the same ideas as me as well so would be nice to chat with you sometime (been a while, 2-3 years probably). However, the new system I do not like that much either, hoping that my suggestions and advices can come to the NQR's attention sometime and that they will listen with both their ears. Courteously dREk |
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| last comment | ||||
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| u are assholes | ||||
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| wolllalalala wallu spammer2k3 | ||||
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