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vs. Fired 
vs. Lege Artis 
vs. Apocalypse 2000 
| Idle warning. 040219 | ||||
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Activity is finally picking up, still most of the clans are behind schedule and some haven't even begun playing games yet. This is ofcourse not acceptable so by the end of this week those clans with 2 or less games played will be removed from NQR6.
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first!
..too many games/week for some clans. too big divisions/short season :( |
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2-3 games per week is ok, if u guys only can play like once a week, maybe u should only play in admortem... |
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good
3 games a week really is a bit much , especially for teams like us that just play once a week. Still we managed to play 5 out of 6 games and will continue to keep up with trhe schedule. Last season was a bit more relaxing though. For the next seaon, at least the lower divisions should be broadened. Like you have division 3a and 3b which play a regular season. And then the best teams from both got o playoffs to decide div3 winner. |
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NQR seems to be a league where ALL or almost all clans take part, and it wouldn`t be better if those, who cant afford higher activity were kicked from nqr. The more w/o, the worse the league imho |
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ye i think its unecessary to kick them |
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..so if some games in div1 isnt played the next four days we could have 10 clans kicked there.. i think last season was kinda slow also but some teams played ALOT of games in the end |
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oops i counted victories... but still.. :) |
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well 0 games in 3 weeks is not suck?. If u cant play then u shouldnt be in nqr. So FNU: start playing your games ffs. |
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I am so idle that you should kick me! |
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It's kinda tough decision to take, but probably necessary. Only problem is that if some clans with good players are kicked from the league, maybe you get a massive scramble from other clans desperate to sign up those players. Admins will need to make sure you don't have too many top/good players in medium/low division clans, upsetting the balance. |
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I'm sad to say, but fnu1 is dead as for nqr6. I don't understand you fausto, you don't like WOs, but still you want idle clans in the league? 3 games/week is a lot if you concider that it's harder to arrange a nqr-game against specific clans than it is to arrange pracs. But I don't think the season should be longer, that would be too boring for the more active clans. All this is of course an effect of having larger divisions this season, which I think is a good thing. It's better with larger divisions since less clans gets placed in the wrong division. And a clan in the wrong division matters less for the other clans. So what to do? The only solution is for the more inactive clans to either struggle to get their games played (or at least as many as possible) or if they feel they can't play enough they have to pass up on participating in the future. It's not a good thing, but the more active clans can't suffer because of inactive clans. |
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crew made right decision imo. It?s not that hard to play 2 games/week, or is it? |
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who could imagine that sassa would be idle? |
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sassa got a job, so that's part of it, but the story is longer than so, including the starplayer seese whos ISP went bankrupt =) |
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| Xpress online? :)) | ||||
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Kicking clans will most likely be very unfair to some clans. Will you nullify the matches they have already played? And remove hard earned points from those(if any) that has already won rounds vs them. Or will you just remove possibe future points for alot of clans who already havent played the kicked clan? |
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I think they should kick all the idleclans that havent played a single game and give clans with only 1-2 games a warning. |
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I think it's fair to say that clans that has only played 2 games in 3 weeks are too idle to participate |
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yeah fnu1 is too inactive, kick'em |
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lucky us, we have played 6 games =) |
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That is sad to hear, we will stramme vores underbukser, and try to get more games played :( |
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what about HF and AXemen(witch infact does not have a team al the time(as they got traitored), i dont want div1 teams removed, if they are not COMPLETELY idle, that means, no pracs, nothing at all. |
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if u are a active clan u should have no problem to play 2-3game / week. If ur not an active clan why are u in nqr? ... |
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jinx: good point. I think best way is to eliminate all results. Those 1 or 2 clans that played them already can concider their match a prac in regards of NQR. I do believe the alternative is worse. But I must say I have confidence that those clans with 0-1 games played so far, that wish to stick around, will make sure to catch up by the end of the week. |
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is it just me or is there a lack of demos? Quake is my favorite spectator sport and I am not finding many demos this season here or on Challenge-tv : ( please don't force me to watch televison or read a book ; ) |
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have u really watched all demos avaliable? cuz there are quite a few =) |
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OPA|Metz: There are A LOT of demos uploaded here on the nqr-site (150+). |
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OPA|Metz: There are A LOT of demos uploaded here on the nqr-site (150+). |
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ZkilfinG: Actually u r right, noone likes idling clans, and the problem is to get a clan playing vs ur team. It happens many times that we, JW are ready to play, and i spam servu, but noone wants to play / has players. Then maybe one guy schedules with us a game for some day [or at least tries]. It is just the way it is - i guess it cant be helped. Everyone finds it hard to organize nqr games - for example JW with medium activity - 7 games - and we play everyday... How about considering the clanbase system? there are scheduled games with 1 week in advance - or sth between the 2 systems? |
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thanks...but i have already perused those. I am looking for div1 demos....they are few and far between. I don't want to slight the clans in other divisions though as i am div 20 material ; ) |
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i dont really see the benefit in that. the news post doesnt mention any either. so what is the point? |
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Some very bad arguments, for a very very badly arranged league. Stuff like "why are you in nqr if just idle" and "most clans should be able to play 2-3 games a week" is just not very valid. The league is put up so you can play the games whenever, but then suddenly you cant. Some clans refuse to play, some dont have right line up, some clans have average age of 30, so there are people working wich means they cant play late. Either you do 2 games EACH week or you get all games played at the end. Going on with this vague system where you dont HAVE to play all, but suddenly HAVE to anywyas or kick, is lajm :) |
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again propulay vevy gut engrlish. |
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| didnt really get it, but ok | ||||
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short version : A) a certain amounts of games has to be played each week or match is voided (NOT to be played later), OR B) All games shall be played untill a certain date. Clans can refuse to play and nothing happens, but if we dont play we get kicked. Its just not right :) |
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| i agree with forsberg :( | ||||
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I didn't understand it all, but it seems like he's on the right track, yes. What's the point in saying that games should be played certain weeks if they can be played in the catch-up week anyway? Of course, no one likes wo/voided games either. So it's not as easy as it might seem. I don't find it very hard to get games togehter, no matter if it's nqr or prac, but I understand if some people think it's a problem. I think the basic layout is good however. The problem is not in the system, but in the fact that some people/clans abuse the system. So what can be done about that? Probably nothing, but we can still whine about it, like everything else ;) |
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yeah I got a job + I didnt find any time after my job that could fit good with the other players so that we could play! It was better off this way than to play 2-3 games and then leave NQR! We will hopefully be back later on in nqr7 with a stronger team, Im now looking forward to join a clan or just try to get some cash in so I can get a better connection so I can join a clan in the higher divisions! anyways I dont think I got the skillz.. ffs even panic is better than me at the moment and that is fucking ashame btw GL to all clans and players! have a nice nqr6 |
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| panic ?ger | ||||
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| jo, panig e stabil div1-2 | ||||
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I don't think you got the point. We can only assume that all clans should play all their matches. For that to happend they need to play an average of 2 games pr week. If a clan haven't played 1 game ... in 3 weeks there is something wrong. It's nothing to do with the fact that you HAVE to play al your games now, so try and look at the numbers! I don't think it's fair to the other clans in the divisions to push your own games forward untill the end of season, and then wanting to play them all. What if the other clans don't have soo much time in the end? What if the clans want to follow the schedule and keep it at ~2 games a week? If we did nothing about it and let ppl play whenever they want It's my belief that we would get even less games played, we would get alot more walkover requests at the end of the season, which we don't want to spend much time on. Frankly I don't think quake clans in generel are ready to be part of this kind of league that requires stable activity through out the divisions. Clans are simply too sloppy/lazy/busy and the minute we try and take meassures to change this we are portraited like nazi league that don't take in consideratinop that some clans have average age of 30.... Division 1 which is supose to be the most elite division is the most idle. I'm not sure what the reason is, but something isn't right. On paper the whole system looked pretty good and at least most of the divisinos are really active. I hope the rest of the season will play out nicely and we can get a proper playoffs this season. But I have to go back to the think-tank for next season. |
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What I have already seen, you have to be activa and schedule the matches early with the opponents. That way you leave both your team and the opponent some movement space if something happens. I'v arranged ~all our matches with no problems even week ahead. Seems the clans are not active enough to go and ask for the matches. I think all of our played matches have been arranged by our team. Haven't seen many clans coming and asking about out "next weeks game" in our chan. Just be active and schedule the matches early and you'll get them played. |
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but don?t try friday or saturday |
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I'd be amazed if fnu1 played 1 fight, prac, nqr or vs mix, before NQR6 ends |
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of course, if you want NQR to be a league, each and every game has to be played. If NQR would be the ladder it used to be, there would be no problem with late or - in the worst case - unplayed games. it all depends on what you want the rank to be, but you have to make up your mind. |
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so how many games have been played if we dont get kick?:O 2? |
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i didnt bother to read paradoks' long post, however the optimal format for this kind of thing is without doubt that 2 games get played one day of the week, same day EVERY week, same time. Like Tuesday 20-22 cet you play 2 games. Its like going to a sport, a priority you make. Its not such a big deal, since most play every night afterall. Doing it this way will make alot of games played, and easy to schedule. Could also do so that every week the teams playing each others agree on some server before hand, that way 2 games shouldnt take longer than 2.5 hours. eod. |
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Now I read it para, I think the time to suck up to the qw clans are over. Alot of clans wanna play the league games, and its very annoying having to deny fights cause you want best lineup, and its even more annoying to have opponent team cancelling for that very reason. Take responsability as a league and make it happen ;> BTW: for people with lots of RL stuff to do, it should be much more easier to be ready that special day. "if i do the dishes all week and change the baby can i get tuesday night off ?" |
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forsberg: I think that would be very hard to get it to happen, but it's a good idea. I've been thinking about the same for my clan, but so far we've not gotten anywhere with it, possibly because we're so active we don't have to. It's also a good idea to compare qw to any other sport activity, it has the same setup. Practices and official games. It's all about how you make your prioritys of course. But if we could get one night to be "NQR-night" everybody would know it, and try to arrange their schedules around it. And for those who couldn't there's still the possibility to do just as we do now, so we lose nothing, but can gain a lot. |
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the point is, no they cannot do like now, they have to play or wo. Sad but true, i dont like WO's but if people in the clan cant get together that one night, its tough luck for them. I realize if a day were chosen, it will hit some percentage of people who have have olympic swimming practice, but ....zzzzZ. (Maybe because QW players are such a rare species, we could make the following day for the games now played, same time or such, but THEN wo for no show.) |
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ups, above is my post again, but directed to skilfing ;> (getting tired after trying to get one nqr game played for 10 hours straight now) |
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lol forsberg you fakenicker! ;) Yeah, if it's done like that it's a much larger step, and one I'm doubtful the community can handle. |
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there aren't enough servers for everyone to play on the same night |
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well 5 divisions, 5 weekdays :) *ding ding* |
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It would also be easy for people to spectate games, since everybody would know when they would happen. "Ahh, another boring monday evening, but hey, tonights nqr-div1-night! I can spec some cool qw game!" |
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But there is always the downside also. There are days when some clans can't possibly play. Their members might have something to do weekly at that specific day. If that day would become their NQR-day they would have hard time keeping up with the other clans maybe. If asked other clans to play on some other day, they might get many answers like "we will only play on the NQR-day be there". Might not be the problem of the majority, but in the worst case scenario it might ruins some clans playing alltogether. |
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well i think thats the minority really. i thikn it sounds like a good idea.. could perhaps make it bit more flexible. saying u got 2 games pr week you could make 2 gamedays for each divisions. like mon:1 3 tue:5 4 wed:2 1 thur:5 4 fri:3 2 |
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Hmm.. if some clans can't possibly play that day maybe get some more members? or try and schedule with the clans outside that day to get them played regardless. |
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| jippie | ||||
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what para said, if your members cant make one single day a week why bother. However there IS the olympic horsebackriding training, but thats just tough. It will hit very very few, as the system is now, it hits lots of people. |
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Just a little note: QW is still anarchy, not an organized sport. So that is not possible my dear dane admin :) |
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para this is so unfair to us with something outside the world of quake! |
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I don't think it's any more unfair than that you can't play qw a specific day because of something else. Think of qw as any other regular scheduled event of your life. You even get two chances if there are two days each week. I'm not sure it would work, but it might be worth a try. |
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Now, since no one reads the nqr-forums anyway I'll post this suggestion of a changed playoff setup here. I talked abit with paradoks earlier and this is about what we came up with. The basic idea is that the best teams should face the worst team of course, things are a bit complex however because of the qualifying round etc. But I've tried concider everything. There are two versions, the first I only changed the qualifying round and what teams from that round should face what teams from seeding group 1, the second I changed the way teams face up in the actual playoff, so that t1 doesn't get a harder path to the finals than t2. Here are the urls: http://home.astrakan.hig.se/zkilfing/ftp/2.3.Silver_Tournament_zkf.txt http://home.astrakan.hig.se/zkilfing/ftp/2.3.Silver_Tournament_zkf2.txt |
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whats wrong with just having the top X teams from each division competing amongst themselves (i.e. like last season's div 1 playoffs but in all divs) |
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gaz That's a whole other discussion, and it's been had before. This setup is what came out of it. |
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ZkilfinG: in ordinary sports, you usually pay a yearly fee, to the organisation that arranges the league, you do this so they can afford to set everything up for you. Organized sports are not anarchy, qw still is. There are a number of reasons it still is an anarchy, and you need a lot more work into this to make qw become an organized online sport. Some online-sports have reached far in this aspect, qw still got a long way to go, we still dont agree on the fucking maps, this is just one of many factors that needs to be solved. |
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I've just posted this on the quakeworld.nu site as well, it can be found here: http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=872 |
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idling clans is a minor issue as long as u got playoffs. |
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Link: I know, but how should we get there if we don't try? I've said several times that I'm not sure this would work, but that it's worth a try. But perhaps you don't even think it's worth that? |
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we had specific days for UK leagues in years gone by.... Saturday and Sunday afternoons were UKCL depending on division, MCW tuesday/wednesday evening, QFFL/UKPL on thursday. Generally speaking the leagues were organised around what evenings the main admin had available etc. It was pretty harsh on some people if they were busy on a certain night with some other stuff and I'm not sure modern european qw is ready for such hard scheduling. Back when those leagues I mentioned were running nearly all players were students or still at school. Nowadays there are a lot of quakers with jobs and stuff, add that to the time differences (moscow is 3hrs ahead of me, finland 2 etc) and maintaining a fixed schedule can be tough. A similar thing was used in early smackdown seasons... game were scheduled for the clans who could then agree to play at a different time if they wished... but of course that gives room for "lameness" where a clan refuses to reschedule if the star player from the other team can't play on that day. Personally I think the current system is working pretty well. Divisions are larger meaning idling clans aren't such a huge worry, there are still plenty of clans to play. |
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I agree ht that idle clans are less of a problem now with larger divisions, and also that things are working quite well. And as the old saying goes "don't fix it if it ain't broken". Always fun to concider "new" options though. |
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Idle, fakenick, play for fun, fee? lol, sell outs, Cliff Burton RIP |
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HangTime you might be right, however its very annoying having to every other day deny a game or have opponent team deny, because best players are not online. We tried to get NQR games played last week, 6-7days and we managed to get _1_ nqr game played last night, due to opponent not wanting to be kicked due to new idle rule. |
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and ye ye ye like like like ... [03:42] <[servu-10]> -QW-5 [f]-sweep - #freedom.qw : any g*yclan nqr/am now? [03:45] <[servu-10]> -QW-5 almeida - #clanbase.qw : any clan prac/am/nqr - #freedom.qw [03:57] <[servu-10]> -QW-5 almeida - #freedom.qw : AM/prac/nqr NOW ... wtf!??!?!? no clans play.. fucking faggets.. this rule sucks cuz some quakers are queers and sleep @ quaketime! ye ye,... its like.. all gay ye ye, best players always sleep ye ye, so no nqr ye ye.. |
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| ye, stop sleeping. | ||||
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scheduling games a few days ahead is still the better way to go. Serv-u is more for getting future weeks games played early. |
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Teams that always must have their best lineup should only sign 4 players up imo. Then everybody knows the deal and there's nothing to whine about (except that it's still a bit lame of course). |
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I'm thinking about some online event tracker where people have to schedule over the site, or at least make the formel suggestions there as to when to play. so there are some clear overview/proof of who asked who and what, and if matches were actually scheduled. But then it almost sounds like clanbase site :) don't know how thrilled people would be about that. |
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My experience from when I tried to do the same thing tells me it doesn't work that well. I think it would be too much work for too little good even if it did work. It would be better if whoever were to code that would do other more urgent stuff (the buglist for nqr.nu someone?). |
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well that is being issued as a whole new site coded from scratch is in the works by Kryten. As he let me know nqr was his very first bigger php site. So naturally it didn't work so well compared to what some are used to. However he came along way from there to today. So lets see what he can do with nqr site v. 3 :) |
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| yes, I know | ||||
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I guess this whole post should be ignored since some clans can actually stay in NQR (wich they should) with less than 2 games played. |
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those clans with 2 games i have spoken to, and they informed me they had scheduled matches for tonight. so i'll let thems tay for now |
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thanks for letting us stay para, really appreciated |
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