2003-06-16 noskill vs. HellFire 0-2 Division 1-2 Playoff details
2003-06-01 Frag Shack vs. Paranoids 0-2 Division 4-5 Playoff details
2003-05-27 Unidentified Quake Entity vs. Dybbuk 1-2 Division 3-4 Playoff details
2003-05-27 Clan Edge vs. Thangorodrim 0-2 Division 5-6 Playoff details
2003-05-26 Thangorodrim vs. OLW 2-0 Division 5-6 Playoff details
2003-05-26 Clan Edge vs. OLW 2-0 Division 5-6 Playoff details
2003-05-25 Campbusters Team 2 vs. Dybbuk 2-0 Division 3-4 Playoff details
  NQR5 map pool and point system  030501  

The NQR admin crew have now agreed upon almost everything about NQR5. The feedback that the community gave about the map issue and point system, have been taking into consideration. Here is what we decided on and an explanation on why we made these decisions.


dm2 - dm3 - e1m2 - cmt1 - cmt2 - cmt3 - cmt4 - cmt5


When clans sign up for NQR5, they will have to vote for one out of two possible point systems.

Alternative 1; the 3-2-1-0 point system

3 points for 2-0
2 points for 2-1
1 point for 1-2
0 points for 0-2.

Random maps; dm2, dm3 and e1m2.

Alternative 2; the 3-1-0 point system

3 points for 2-0
3 points for 2-1
1 point for 1-2
0 points for 0-2.

Random maps; all 8 maps.


NQR5 will start after the summer break; late August / early September. The goal is to arrange NQR5 and NQR6 before Xmas.


We will cut the divisions down to 10 teams per division, like we originally wanted for NQR4. Because of all the clans that signed up for NQR4, and our little knowledge about them, we were not 100% about their skill level, so we extended the divisions a little, we taught that would be for the best. With only 9 games to play, we get a lot of advantages; teams will get shorter seasons, hopefully this means less WO's and in our "unstable" clan scene, it is better with shorter seasons. The promotion / relegation system will also be better with shorter seasons.


The NQR crew will start a signup ASAP for a CMT league #2. This league will start when the NQR4 championship playoff is over, or when we get it set up. It should not take longer than 14 days maximum. Every team that signs up will be placed in the same division, just as the NQR2 ladder system. Every clan can play whomever clan they like, and they can play that clan as many times as they like. You get 1 point per map you win, no mapbalance, no fragbalance. In other words, you dont loose anything if you loose 0-2. The league will start sometime in May, and end just before NQR5 starts, in late August. There is no limit to how many games you can play.

This means the following:

- You got a league to play in all summer, if you want.

- Play whenever you like, vs anyone you like, how many times you like.

- You get the chance to learn the CMT maps, before NQR5 starts.

This league serves one important purpose: learning the CMT maps in a league that dont set any "strict" boundaries, you are pretty free to do whatever you want. And if you want to take it dead serious and win the league, you have to be active because activity wins more points.

You now get almost 4 months to learn the CMT maps. If you dont want to take this chance to learn the CMT maps, then all we can say is; sorry, we cant do much more than this to help you out.


Lets do some history; smackdown introduced e2m2 and e3m7. Now, in 2003, NQR4, e2m2 was played 6 times, sorry smackdown admins, but e2m2 did not make it. The maps e2m7, e3m3 and e3m7 were the most played exmx maps: 22, 25 and 22 times. The big 3 were played 195, 178 and 130 times. So you can fairly say: no exmx map has made it to the mainstream of QW'ers.

Sure, some of those maps are good for 4on4, but no exmx map got played 100 times, not even 50, not even 30. So what do we do, do we keep on making arguments to ppl who never want to play them anyway?

But some clans like it, because they know them, and play them as home map, so they want them to be in NQR4. This is where the dilemma comes inn: we want a smaller map pool, so what exmx maps do we choose? If some exmx maps get left out, some clans will be treaten unfairly, they dont get there home map.

Sure, you can say that e2m7, e3m3 and e3m7 were the most played maps, but hey, you call 25 times much? It is not like those maps are superior in any way to the other maps, they were just played a little more. If a exmx map had been played over 50 times, then you could say that here is a map that is more special than others; it is good for 4on4 and it does get played by the mainstream. But this does not happen.

So the admins argued on what exmx maps we should have inn, just like the crowd does. And just like the crowd, we cant agree. This is the dilemma with the exmx maps. The admins love the exmx maps, we think they are fun to play and good for 4on4, but the only fair thing to do, towards all players, is to let them all inn, or dont have them at all. So then it was simple, Link sacrified e1m5, Icce sacrified e2m2, etc, we did this because we saw another solution; it was time to bring in the CMT maps to NQR. They are made for 4on4 and have already been proven very good to play on by the elite and by the teams that are not elite. So then why keep dwelling on with the exmx arguments and discussions? Why not look forward? So we did just that, and on top of that, we gave you 4 months and a league to learn the CMT maps. Your choice.

We stand united by our decisions, now you can be happy...or cry.


Gamer - 030501 @ 15:54:46
First post. owned hagge, canius, horatio etc..
busti - 030501 @ 15:57:15
it all sounds very good.. nice going admins!
MIXU - 030501 @ 16:03:06
jezaja - 030501 @ 16:03:14
Ive expect som cmt-maps wont be played even 20 times. "Mainstream" :D Who wants to be mainstream.
blitz - 030501 @ 16:03:34
Well now I see a reason for a return of Smackdown at least.
busti - 030501 @ 16:04:05
hmm.. but does one have to vote for random map: "all maps" if prefering the second pointsystem? "random" maps (a.k.a deciding maps) should really be big 3 whatever pointsystem is used. but the rest of it is nice ;)
flinty - 030501 @ 16:06:42
go go go! e2m2, e2m7 and maybe e1m5 is very balanced imo, shame ppl don't play them :( ALL other exmx maps sucks in balance!
Link - 030501 @ 16:06:55
With big 3 as random maps in the 3-1-0 system, then you win NQR by only playing big 3. NQR is not only big 3 ( for the 34234234234234 time).
busti - 030501 @ 16:17:30
"The big 3 were played 195, 178 and 130 times" well.. its really close to big 3 only ;)
TiMMi - 030501 @ 16:17:40
I wanna play episode maps!! :(
busti - 030501 @ 16:19:07
well TiMMi, there is always the "singleplayer" option :D
Caban - 030501 @ 16:27:32
I want dm4 for nqr5!!! Just kidding :EEE GG and I think nqr5 will be the greates of all nqr!
Hangtime - 030501 @ 16:36:02
nice idea about CMT #2, I just hope that enough "medium skill" clans enter i.e. not mega-owners like cmf/sr/fs who know cmt maps already and there isn't much point to play them. BTW I think part of the reason these eXmY maps weren't played much is that you only get to pick one map, and random map is big3 only. So naturally, a clan with best map e1m2 will pick e1m2 homemap - that doesnt mean they think e2m2, e1m5 or whatever is a bad map, but they only have one choice. Then random map is big3 so that biases the statistics again. As jezaja says, some of CMT maps might prove that popular either, simply because clans will pick their best map - doesnt mean they hate others maps.
Spd - 030501 @ 16:41:05
It sure going to be diffrent if a 3-1-0 point system is used. I hope that nqr5 will be 3-2-1-0 because I am not to fond of the idee that all maps may be random maps.
pattah - 030501 @ 16:42:32
I'm happy :))))))
Nocturnal - 030501 @ 16:42:56
Well I think it would be more fair towards the clans to let them vote on which maps to be in nqr5. Yes, they're probably good suited for 4on4, but many conservative players don't like to play the new maps and won't play in nqr if they're in. Also sad that e2m2 won't be allowed :( it's a very good map along with other exmx maps. I don't think that some of the cmt maps will get so much more popular than them.
R2D2 - 030501 @ 17:02:16
Sigh.. they remove the eXmX maps and adds the CMT maps.. makes you wanna vomit all over.
znappe - 030501 @ 17:54:16
new smackdown season please.. this shit is getting out of hand :/
Goljat - 030501 @ 18:15:37
znappe this league is not dm2,dm3,e1m2 only, there have been now four season with exmy maps, lets try one season with cmt maps ok? Can i ask how do you know that system sucks, you have never even played cmt maps i guess. You have more than enough time to practice these maps or just one map like in eXmY system to get a 'free point' from home map. Nqr cmt league: It's ok to me that clans like "sr,cmf,fs" doesn't join and then the winner of cmt league play against slackers or sr/fs/cmf winner.
Hagge - 030501 @ 18:15:40
great! can?t wait until the season starts :[]
tyrone - 030501 @ 18:17:40
like CMT will get any closer than the exmx maps to the big 3 in times played...
Sassa - 030501 @ 18:28:36
GREAT to hear, LOVE to play 4 months CMT so we can get used to them before NQR5 starts! LOVE the new NQR5 idea... cant fuckin wait!!!!!! and yes, Smackdown wouldnt be bad to have now so we could see some BIG officiall games between the top teams on the normal big three maps also..... but GO NQR5
znappe - 030501 @ 18:30:08
as long as there is more than the big 3 i will keep on saying the system sucks.. and yes little mongoljat, I have played the cmt-maps and they r teh sux.. have one big3 league and one cmt league.. then the cmt ppl can play in that league if they wish and we who dont like cmt-maps can play the big3!
dREk - 030501 @ 18:30:50
Tyrone: They will be since they are "forcing" the clans to play them. :P Well I think it's sad since our homemap is and have been for all time e3m3 and have never lost a single time. However maybe it's time to move on and try those new maps so every clan could stop bugging us for choosing a "lame" map. We didn't play e3m3 for winning, we played it since it has been our map all time since 97 and we like it. And about the point system, 3-1-0 is more fair and it creates much more excitment when it comes to deciders.. choosing a random map from all 8 maps.
andy - 030501 @ 18:43:42
I suggest 2 maps only in groupgames and have a draw instead of a 3rd random map if score is 1-1.
Eta-Beta - 030501 @ 18:48:00
One CMT tourney and one big three +exmy maps (vote for the exmy maps). And if e1m5 gets more than the numbers of signed players in the axemen, remove them 8) xiit 8))). And allow e3m2 even though noone plays it 8)
Eta-Beta - 030501 @ 18:49:17
And btw, I hope you've read speeds info about the league point system.. Since 3-2-1-0 wasn't any different to 4-2-1-0 or whatever it was... O?K?.. I'll post the link when I find it.
Spd - 030501 @ 18:55:50
with 3-1-0 its sure gonna be RANDOM, but I dont see why its more fair? Most clans will still choose one of the big three and insted of playing the remaning map its going to be one of 6 random maps. In the current system you almost always knows what a third map would be and could prepare (hehe like we ever did that but any way ;). With the 3-1-0 system its going to be much more random and I dont like random.
Spd - 030501 @ 18:56:45
Eta-Beta its @
Offbreed - 030501 @ 19:05:35
omg cmt zzzz.. go for the big three only instead!!!
znappe - 030501 @ 20:27:47
for the first time ever i have to admit that offie said something correct! :p
Kryten - 030501 @ 20:28:43
Well I'm sure all the NQR admins, myself included, would welcome the return of Smackdown - but its not relevant to this discussion. Please don't turn this into a competition and certainly don't try and turn NQR into Smackdown.
manu - 030501 @ 20:40:32
its really nice of the NQR crew to let us vote for the pointsystem, why dont do the same with the maps ? tb3 + 4 maps that the community votes for ? admins could decide what maps they think are good for teamplay and let the community vote...(all cmt, e2m2, e2m7, e3m3, e3m1, and one more perhaps)
Melker - 030501 @ 20:45:17
You whined just like me when Smackdowns was active.. "omg smackdown sux" and so on... now you bless it... pathetic 0m6
znappe - 030501 @ 20:51:19
i have always supported smackdown, smackdown is the best qw-tournament so far in my pov.
razor - 030501 @ 20:55:39
i really think it should be a vote on stuff like this... i cant see the harm in that? and why isnt 4-3-1-0 an option? which i think most ppl suggested before in some commentplace.. i dont remember where on nqr.. doesnt feel like we have much to vote on.
manu - 030501 @ 20:57:05
after CMTNQR-2, when most of the ppl really know CMT maps and have made a good opinion about them, let all clans vote before entering NQR5, i think this is a really good idea =) perhaps 2-3 cmt maps and 1-2 exmx maps would be added to TB3 then
razor - 030501 @ 20:57:42
but anyway... im ok with big3+cmt. and 3-1-0 system isnt that bad... but whynot just havea vote ? a vote doesnt make it worse
Spd - 030501 @ 21:00:42
the point system isnt the issue for me (cause its dosent make that big diffrens) its the random maps, and ill guess it could be fun to use cmt maps as radom maps. Ooh and i love map votes cause then we all can play dm6 :)
Melker - 030501 @ 21:04:02
vote can harm the league... remember.. we have voted before on the maps.. and well .. it sucked... thats why we are here today with this problem.
Hagge - 030501 @ 21:26:52
ye votes really suck because ppl are stupid enough to vote for dm6 :[
znappe - 030501 @ 21:36:47
bara f?r hagge suger p? dm6 :(
Sassa - 030501 @ 21:42:56
lets get ready for nqr-cmt2 !!!!!!
Link - 030502 @ 00:10:17
Znappe: it is 100% pure BS that you have played cmt maps. When you have played one of the maps 5 times in 4on4, yes, then I believe you , but stop the BS plz :)
Goljat - 030502 @ 00:10:50
smackdown6 will be invite only, at least what i have heard. Vote 3-1-0 point system if you don't like maps, then its no matter if you lose opponents' map, because random map is dm2,dm3,e1m2
Strife - 030502 @ 00:48:41
Well done admins!
xhrl - 030502 @ 00:56:50
sd should be invite only. and the 3-1-0 point system is what the manly clans will opt for. I like this map arrangement. I am just pissed off about the cmt5 naming issue from a month or so ago. But having some of these tdm-designed maps used for nqr will be better than any of the episode maps. Looking forward to seeing some cmt-league games through the spring/summer; hopefully i will get over this cmt5 naming issue soon enough to enjoy the games....but i am still pissed at Link about not giving us cmt5-pro.bsp :P
Strife - 030502 @ 00:58:18
And I was not being sarcastic, I will vote for the second option.
Krass - 030502 @ 01:25:48
is the next smackdown really gonna be invite?, how many clans are gonna be invited ?
[E] Hixen - 030502 @ 01:26:29
E will be in NQR 5, but we will leave w.o. on every cmt round.. then we dont have to play it, and the ones we play against dont have to play it and we can only play the big three maps.. and we vote for the 2-1 (3p system) then we dont lose any points.. if we win 2 rounds. So ppl whining about this cmt instead of eXmX, comprimise.. we are :)
[E] Hixen - 030502 @ 01:28:25
yes I'm aware that we will lose all points if we lose :), and the cmt summer sesaon.. good, then we can take a break and enjoy the summer instead
krass - 030502 @ 01:28:32
also, when are we gonna se cmt6,7,8,9 and 10, i really wanna see some new maps!!! plz, wouldnt mind remakes of like dm99a and ukcldm2 etc
[E] - 030502 @ 01:29:06
just dont take me to serious, this was just my first thoughts.. ppl can change =)
mooniz - 030502 @ 01:33:56
when will have a big three tournament.. always need to bring some "extra" maps. Nowadays its so freaking hard to get practice even in the big three, so cmt pracs are like cocacola-dispenders in sahara. Id wish nqr would be with only the big three, and then other tournaments like CMT, where people could play other maps if they wanted to. oldsk00l out.
killis - 030502 @ 02:16:58
What happened to e2m2 which is a far better 4on4 map than DEUTCHMASHCHINE?
Firee - 030502 @ 02:20:54
I am feeling the same way as mooniz is.. those big 3 have been always played more than any other map and I dont think that adding CMT maps will "improve" the league because it's good already. It's a real shame that all of those good exmy maps e3m3 e2m7 wont be around in the next season and I dont think that even when forcing clans to play CMT maps will make them ever as popular than the big 3. I must say that I probably wouldnt give a rats ass is CMF or SR the best clan in CMT1 as I would in DM3. The point system was good last season when it was 2-2-1-0 this gave 2-1 victories a change to win a division even when loosing an exmy map. gl admins
Link - 030502 @ 02:37:54
e2m2 is better than cmt3? Well, then there is no hope at all :)
Link - 030502 @ 02:42:14
Giving WO on 2nd map and play 3rd map will not be tolerated anymore. This will be added to rules, sorry Hix :>
Goljat - 030502 @ 02:43:56
same people whined in smackdown time that i don't like to be get owned so much on dm3,dm2 etc... let's make this clear: you don't have to play against slackers/fs/cmf on cmt1, because you play against your division clans. I have no idea about sd6, but i think it will be something like Heroes (about 10clans). Let's try now one season with cmt maps and then make comments about system, like there was a big whine about qwcl clients before nqr4 and now everyone is happy, surprise? :)
flinty - 030502 @ 02:45:12
e2m2, e2m7 and maybe e1m5 - ONLY exmy maps who are 4on4-able!
Empezar - 030502 @ 03:21:39
wouldnt eXmX maps be played more if they were included in decider? how many decider maps were played?
Eta-Beta - 030502 @ 03:49:27
I say vote. Why not? What have you got to lose? The community (if you're not giving us a poll about it...) Raise your voice and vote for a vote 8) lame admins if we don't get a vote on this thing.
SLB - 030502 @ 03:51:32
Remove dm2, dm3 and e1m2 plz, then other maps would be played.. 2ez
diehuman - 030502 @ 03:52:26
cool NQR5 go forward ,i would like to see the cmt maps!I love those maps =D cmt3 my favorit =D
Lornelin - 030502 @ 05:41:56
Firstly, in most cases voting sucks (from my experience at least) Maps and stuff like that for a league should be decided by the admins after listening to the community and considering options carefully... seems like that's what you did. I really like e3m3 and e2m7, and i will miss playing e2m2, e3m2 and e3m7 as well. I also don't like being forced to play cmt maps as decider (i have no problem with them being options as home maps) This is only one season though, and a short one at that. If a majority don't like this system after the season i'm sure they will change it, but this is probably the only way to get most clans to really learn the cmt maps. I just hope some league will allow at least some exmy maps in the future.
sexC - 030502 @ 07:47:59
pretty lame that you're not allowed to give a wo on the 2nd map and still play the third, that just means that people will idle for 20 mins on irc instead, so please don't enforce such a rule. I could agree on one or maybe two cmt maps, but there should be some exmy maps (ie e2m2 etc). just give it all a second thought, because I've always thought that NQR was about playing as MUCH as possible and having as much FUN as possible. if all this would go through the league would just be plain gay :|
Samgorod - 030502 @ 08:36:13
GG Hixen lol just what I was thinking :) GG Mooniz also! Yeah voting would be a good thing...
HangTime - 030502 @ 09:39:11
the problem is under 3-1-0 system, random map can be be anything, and there is a 67% probability the randommap will be cmt (assuming you take one from tb3 and enemy takes one from cmt). So in fact CMT haters will be better off voting for 3-2-1-0 system with only tb3 as randommap.
MIXU - 030502 @ 09:46:21
and what if NQR 5 is a complete flop due to cmt maps ? gg ? Don't think their should be a rule itself for giving wo on 2nd map, it is hard to force ur clan to learn FIVE new maps. we (fs) did play on them earlier today, and the opinions of "gay, lame" etc changed to slightly less pesemestic, but that was only 4 of us. I think vote should be done, ask each clan what it thinks, and none of this BS "u dont like the league start your own", that is lame. Simply an opinion. A good idea tho, would be to ask AFTER nqr cmt 2, that way some ppl will have adjusted to the maps and change their opinons.
billy - 030502 @ 09:54:43
3-1-0 with big three as deciders, has to be it :) 3-1-0 with 8 random maps makes it a cmt-league really! At least remove 2 cmt maps so the deciders can be 50% big three and 50% cmt.Whatever may the cmt-lovers may say, the big three has to be the base for winning a game not cmt maps :( summer=vacation , not cmt map learning time sorry :[
dREk - 030502 @ 09:58:41
Hangtime.. I think you pretty goood explained it all there. I don't believe that the admin will change the voting and those who really doesn't want the cmt maps that much should go for 3-2-1-0 system since then you can win only by playing b3 maps but u are only getting 1 more point. So the talk about b3 being out is wrong as long as you vote for first option. However, the real loss here is the exmy maps, but hey.. we must live with that and atleast try the cmt maps. As stated before, my clan played e3m3 but not because that's a great 4on4 map and not because of getting a map victory only that we for some reason choose it for homemap 6 years ago. And it is the admins choice since it is their league but they do a great job listening to the audience and community I think, otherwise the point system wouldn't be discussed.
dREk - 030502 @ 10:04:09
Also want to state that I could agree that cmt plays a bigger role in voting option #2 and that an option is like billy said, remove two cmt maps or add two exmy maps (vote). Mixu, the ppl will be asked AFTER nqr cmt2, just to clearify that.. "When clans sign up for NQR5, they will have to vote for one out of two possible point systems." and NQR5 starts after summer.
MIXU - 030502 @ 10:28:16
vote on maps i said
Spd - 030502 @ 10:30:52
If most clans keep there home maps from nqr4 the random map with the 3-1-0 system will in most cases be 1 from big 3 and 5 cmt maps. But if you just wants to say that cmt 5 was played 60 times as random map hey its fine ;) Well its sure going to be an intresting season if its a 3-1-0 system :) Link thx for fixing giving wo on the other teams home map :) cause it was kinda lame that it was better for you to give a wo agains some teams ;) (SSc on e3m3 and so on).
oddjob - 030502 @ 11:32:14
wasent very hard to see this coming, since sr is the only clan actually playing those sucky cmt maps and paradoks is admin... ez win
Link - 030502 @ 11:45:20
"we (fs) did play on them earlier today, and the opinions of "gay, lame" etc changed to slightly less pesemestic" ... and a couple of more times and its: "this could actually work" ... and a couple of more times: "hey, it is really good". It's the same story all over again: first whine, then less whine, then it is acceptable, then it is good. So zzzzz to hear this all the time when you know what will happen. You think the maps are a lucky shot in the dark, like dm3 was? Votes: then somene dont get their home map, even if the maps that go trough are not any better than the others. All the maps in the NQR4 pool are good 4on4 maps, cutting away 70 % of them is unfair for some, cutting them all is fair, no one gets the advantage. Billy: 3 points for 2-0 and 2-1 with tb3 as random map: why play on any other map than tb3 then? then tb3 is all you need, how many times must we say NQR is not just tb3 before you understand it? WO's on 2nd map and play 3rd: that is very lame and unsportmanslike towards the other team, they are ALSO playing for fun, and they ALSO want to play on their map, just like you want to. How on earth can they get to play their map if you leave WO on it? That's pretty lame attitude towards the other team and should NOT be accepted in any way. Can all of you "whiners" play one cmt map 5 times, seriously, and then comment on it plz? Have not heard so much whine in a long time :)
Link - 030502 @ 11:47:54
oddjob: very nice research there, you should join the NQR research staff!
XalibuR - 030502 @ 12:24:50
I like to play some odd exmy maps now and then, and it deffently gives less good clans an extra chance to defeat the better ones. cmt maps are well known by the present 4 top teams in div 1, so only playing cmt and big three will, from the way I see it only make the lead for these clans increase... But then again there are 5 divs where cmt fights might be more interesting than that... so why not just add the cmt maps to current map lineup?
FlePser - 030502 @ 12:41:39
GG admins
[E] Hixen - 030502 @ 12:49:49
Link then I have to find some other loop hole, belive me I will find it, and this time I wont tell you, so you can change the rules :) and for Samgorod and Mooniz, i know I was reading your minds :) sorry
Vertigo - 030502 @ 12:56:07
Great news here. Firstly it was good idea to tell the scene about NQR's future at this point, so now peeps have something to wait for. Not just the usual summertime suspicion of will QW be alive after this idle perioid. Secondly, CMT's RULE! ExMy's have had like seven years time to become popular, but like the most intelligent ;) qw players noticed several years ago - those dont have any potential of becoming intresting 4on4 maps. Face it: ExMy's are designed for single player gaming only! CMT's are made by great mappers and hardcore 4on4 players together and the potential those maps contain is enormous. It's incredible and respectable that NQR crew finds still new ways to develop Quakeworld gaming, although this our game is seven years old already! Keeping QW fresh is vital for it's existence and thank god there's still guys who like to do the work for us basic QW players. Thanks.
javve - 030502 @ 13:05:05
WEII WEII! :) I dont care what maps! I just wanna play this game whenever i have the time to! CYA all in game!
Eta-Beta - 030502 @ 13:50:27
All cmt maps except for cmt2 are so freakin' big. Can't you just shrink them a few % with some Worldcraft program ?... Just a though. And link, I've played them more than 5 times.
Eta-Beta - 030502 @ 13:51:11
Playing cmt with a rocket launcher is like playing on end with dmm4...
Link - 030502 @ 14:06:04
cmt5 is made smaller and e1m2 is just as big or bigger than all cmt maps. The average frag per map on cmt maps is just as high as the big 3, even though ppl dont know how to spawnrape/maplock yet. Anything else you wanna say Eta?
razor - 030502 @ 14:16:17
still quad shaft is too strong many cells! the main tactic on cmt1 atm is to NOT let paradoks take the shaft...if u look at tb3 only dm3 has shaft and with little cells and very hard to get... and also i think it would be enough with 2-3 cmt maps.. and maybe 2-3 episode maps also.. :/ its fun with those a bit "odd" games on e1m5 etc also once in a while
mooniz - 030502 @ 14:40:35
some of the cmt maps are fine, but even now its so freaking hard to practise the BIG THREE (3) maps, so in the summer, when QW activity is in its PEAK, it will a walk in the park practising those 8 maps!
znappe - 030502 @ 14:49:25
lol link, i have played them, so dont tell me what i have done and what i dont have... its u who stands for the bs.. i mean u dont even play in the league.. u just play mr super1337admin.. ban link, ban cmt, E1M2, DM2, DM3 OOOOOOOOOONLY
Link - 030502 @ 15:02:22
What maps did you play, hwo many times did you play them and vs who did you play?
Link - 030502 @ 15:08:17
Nice compliment to para razor. Mooniz, sad to see that after 6 years of qw, you still dont know how to play the big 3. The map does not change at all you know. You dont need a special bicycle to go bicycle, you dont need a special pool to go swim.
sexC - 030502 @ 15:11:02
razor: yer cmt1 is designed for para, but then again if you had a map that you really loved wouldn't you want it included in the league? I just reckon that cmt will take away the chance of small teams beating big teams, since it's really only the big teams that know the cmt maps anyways. Thus the gap will be increased and not decreased the way you'd like it in any sport.
Link - 030502 @ 15:30:46
The divisions set the gap, not the maps.
Link - 030502 @ 15:40:12
In the CMT league these 11 teams were more or less active, and therefore they know the maps better than the rest: FS - SR - CMF - CB - OEKS - AQ - 4K - CB2 - GTG - [0] - EQ. These are div. 1-3 teams. sexC, you are asuming no other teams are going to play them / learn them from now on until NQR5 starts? If that is the case: ye, then you are correct.
andy - 030502 @ 16:02:04
Finally a good flamewar again! We're still lacking behind in racist statements in my opinion :)
Spd - 030502 @ 16:34:55
Andy its not a real flame war before 100 posts (soon there goooo ;). Link a like the cmt maps and look forward to play them. BUT its not like you dont need to prac on the big 3 (if you dont good for you). And its nice to give every one a chance to play cmt maps during the summer, but there is a reason we dont have normal nqr/sd season during the summer right? So mooniz has a point.
billy - 030502 @ 17:12:39
the only way the cmt maps are going to be played more than the exmy maps in nqr4 is when they are selected to be random maps in case of a 1-1 :) I can bet that if deciders are the big three cmt maps will be played like 20 times each AT MOST
dREk - 030502 @ 17:16:21
Hehe.. --> "cause it was kinda lame that it was better for you to give a wo agains some teams ;) (SSc on e3m3 and so on). " Thanx for crediting us for that one spd. :P I wonder how long this discussion will keep going, since it's already soon 100 posts and it's a long time before this nqr5 season starts. :P
Kryten - 030502 @ 17:31:13
Hixen, and others, should take note of the following rule: "We reserve the right to treat any behaviour that is deemed to be unsporting as an offence and will be dealt with appropriately, at the discression of the admins."
Link - 030502 @ 17:39:15
Billy, ye good point, but if you dont learn cmt maps, you will loose 1-2 every time vs a "cmt" team, and the "cmt" team will get a point in every game, even if random maps are tb3. And as "everyone" knows tb3, then a "cmt" team will have a HUGE advantage. And if you pick the 3-1-0 point system, then the odd's say it will be a cmt map as random map. So by not learning cmt maps, you will miss out on a lot of points for sure.
tyrone - 030502 @ 17:40:09
Link - 030502 @ 17:40:38
I meant if you dont learn cmt maps you will only WIN 2-1 every time :)
Link - 030502 @ 18:09:56
you say:"All the maps in the NQR4 pool are good 4on4 maps, cutting away 70 % of them is unfair for some, cutting them all is fair, no one gets the advantage" no one get the advantage,? i think SR and the rest of the cmt-clans get a huge advantage adding thier CMT homemap. Its a bigger advantage then not removing some clans exmx homemap. A voting(each clan vote for 5 maps) after nqr-cmt2 would reflect the oppions of the scene, and not the oppions of the nqr-crew.(nqr admins pls read that twice) Perhaps the map pool would be unfair for some, qh not getting e4mx but i think this would bring the best solution to all.
WRONG NAME - 030502 @ 18:14:35
ERROR ERROR, to early. the post above is written by MANU, and not LINK
billy - 030502 @ 18:17:50
yeah Link but this is not supposed to be a PRO-CMT-League , or is it? I dont think that such a popular league's aim should be to popularise new maps :) If the community doesnt naturally want to play them, why do? :E
HangTime - 030502 @ 18:23:42
MANU-LINK has similar thoughts to me, this argument that only allowing some eXmY is unfair because some clans get their "strange" map, and others don't is bullshit. With CMT, some clans will get their homemap, and others won't. In my view there is very little difference between a clan picking eXmY for tactical reasons and a clan picking CMTx for tactical reasons - just in NQR5 only the CMT experts get that advantage, not those who have invested time praccing ExMy.
TiMMi - 030502 @ 18:50:40
Why not let it be as it is, and add cmt maps, or vote for 2-3 cmt maps? [18:40] <TiMMi> NQR was all about playing alot, on e1m5. [18:41] <TiMMi> Now its nothing. :)
Offbreed - 030502 @ 18:54:09
We all have played ExMy maps for 6 years, more or less, so most of us have at least seen them. The CMT maps are new to some, I've played one of them, and don't see a reason to add all CMT maps to nqr5, when there are good ExMy maps and don't come and say that it's fun with new maps, then dump the big three aswell!!!! Have some kind of voting regarding the map pool!
make u think - 030502 @ 18:58:39
about making a new and better league!
Samgorod - 030502 @ 19:08:44
What color is your tongue butt kissers? :) C'mon its only a game... If you play long enough you can beat those big shot egoists that is if winning is that important to you... And some nerdie will probably have a nerve breakdown :D C'mon soon its summer! Well you can skip the sun and beaches and sit tight at home and watch demos all day long and learn cmt maps :)) Yeah right... Quake will die during summer and admins don't have anymore players to bounce around :) Maybe ppl play qw because they like the game the way it is and they like the maps. You change the basics -> the maps. You change the game... iD made that error two times ;P division1 top4 = minority... small minority...
Sassa - 030502 @ 19:22:06
HangTime, they got 4 months to learn the cmt maps! imo its couldnt be better for those teams.. they got now TIME and officiall CMT games to practice the maps! and as ppl already said HT, the eXmY maps are not good 4on4 maps.. but we know that the cmt maps are good 4on4 maps, its not like playing dm6 or some eXmY-map..
ok98 - 030502 @ 19:30:01
Detta ?r s? sjukt s? ja orkar inte ens skiva p? engelska. Orka med cmt. Nu har man lyckats f? in lite 4on4 taktiker p? alla mapsen detta nqret. K?nns som allt pracande va f?rj?ves :( Aldrig att ja orkar l?ra mig cmt. BL
Link - 030502 @ 19:47:53
"cmt-clans" ? what is that? do you mean the clans that played in the cmt league? they played MAXIMUM 8 games + playoffs. The only advantage those 11 clans got is MINIMAL. HT: the point is: when FUDOH picks e3m7 vs [0], it will be a total rape, because of the map design/layout. This will NOT happen on the cmt maps, the cmt maps are more like "e1m2/dm3" kind of maps, therefore teams will learn to appriciate these maps much faster than some e3m3/e3m2/e3m7 rape. "Nu har man lyckats f? in lite 4on4 taktiker p? alla mapsen detta nqret" ... du har s?kert praccat MINST 10 gonger p? exmx for at f? inn taktiken ok98, eller hur? :>
Link - 030502 @ 19:53:35
HT: exmx maps has been around since quake got out, cmt is just out, are you saying that the the teams that pick cmt maps will have just as big tactical advantage as the teams that pick exmx? with cmt maps 90% starts from scratch, the other 10 % got MINIMAL advantage. This is EASY to catch up on until nqr5. And remember that the cmt maps are like e1m2/dm3, the maps that EVERYONE likes, they are not like e3m3, e3m7 etc. So yes, there is a BIG difference.
Spd - 030502 @ 20:07:46
Sassa the reason we dont have a summer season in nqr and sd it that a great deal of qw players cant play qw during the summer. So for a great deal of pll its not 4 months. Link I think its fair to asume that the clans that played in nqr-cmt practiced on atleast some of the cmt maps ;) and didnt only play offical games you could EVEN say that since EVERY one that played cmt maps more than 5 times loves them they probably has played every cmt maps a great many times now :P But if you dont like cmt maps just vote for point system 1 and its no biggie :)
Link - 030502 @ 20:09:57
And thats how ez it is to learn them. But instead they prefer to whine.
mooniz - 030502 @ 20:17:26
so link you are saying once you have learned once dm3, you never need to prac it again? hell, we have whole summer to bunnyjump on localhost through cmt maps, and then when the league begins we will be the champions, right? :) :) maybe we now know why you got 6 frags in the finland-norway d32c game ;)
Link - 030502 @ 20:22:34
skill and tactics are 2 diff things, imagine if riker had tactics :) most ppl got the standard skill you need to play a good game of qw. you dont need to LEARN dm3 no more ffs, you DO KNOW the map mooniz? when you say you need to prac dm3, you dont need to prac it to LEARN it, you need to prac it to prac qw.
znappe - 030502 @ 20:23:35
haha go mooniz :pp
znappe - 030502 @ 20:26:01
having a good time link? :p
Link - 030502 @ 20:31:34
you're swede znappe, you're forgiven
znappe - 030502 @ 20:31:55
just give up ;<
znappe - 030502 @ 20:41:24
you will never get everyone to fully agree with u lars-erik.. doesnt matter how much u want that to happend my little cuddly nazidictatorstylisch norwegian :<<<<<<<<
Link - 030502 @ 20:45:54
We dont expect everyone to agree, no one in the qw community fully agrees on anything, has always been like that, it prolly will always be like this too. But, if ppl dont even want to GIVE IT A CHANCE, like your self, then it really is borked.
znappe - 030502 @ 20:50:07
im fine with how it is.. the reason why i came back to qw from cs was that there were too many changed in cs.. i just felt like playing the same game at the same maps as i always has.. why change everything :( exmx + dm maps for the people.. you could say im conservative but i just want the game to stay as it is now since atleastI feel that it is perfect as it is now! maybe its just me.. but ok then.. have fun with ruining a totally perfect game :<
znappe - 030502 @ 20:51:02
Link - 030502 @ 21:11:19
Znappe: "you just want the game to stay as it is" Did we change the game? The game is the same, you never want to play on exmx maps anyway, you only want the big 3, but suddenly now you are whining? what is the big difference for you if you get owned on e3m7 or cmt3? you will still say the map sucks...DM3 ONLY PLZ! SKILL PLZ! "ruining a totally perfect game " ... I guess that statement says what kind of attitude you got, you say we are ruining a perfect map because we bring in maps designed for EXCACTLY WHAT YOU WANT: skillz, not lame luck or spawns.
Link - 030502 @ 21:12:52
zzz kryten, fix edit comments plz :> *ruining a perfect game* not maps
znappe - 030502 @ 21:14:42
the cmt-maps is not "skillz, not lame luck or spawns" .. and offcourse i rather play dm3 than dm2 and e1m2, thats no secret, and offcourse i play dm maps rather than exmx maps, but i ALSO MOST CERTAINLY play any EXMX map rather than any if the cmt-maps.. there is no poin in bringin in new maps.. not in all leagues anyway.. just keep em seperated.. it cant be that hard? those who wants to play cmt can play in the cmt league, we who wants to play the REAL quake-maps can play in that league.. why mix all the shit up.
Link - 030502 @ 21:20:18
Why not try seriously to play on them and go: "Hey, you was right, I was wrong!" Did that EVER strike your mind? :) The point is znappe: you dont care if the map gives you a boner larger than mt. everest. you have DECIDED ALREADY that you dont want to play it, or hell will freeze over. That's the attitude you got, has nothing to do if the cmt maps are good or not.
znappe - 030502 @ 21:26:14
if the cmt-maps is good or bad actually dont have that much to do with what im saying (might have sounded like it),so to clearify my point: I dont wanna learn more maps, i dont wanna prac more maps, I dont have time to prac more maps, I just wanna play the maps we allready have
Link - 030502 @ 21:27:19
I know :)
znappe - 030502 @ 21:28:34
hehe, love u :ppp tv now, cu
billy - 030502 @ 21:43:09
I GOT AN IDEA: GIVE A POLL: WIHT NO OPTIONS JUST THESE 2: NQR WITH CMT OR NQR WITHOUT CMT . I can guess what the outcome will be :((((((((((
Goljat - 030502 @ 21:54:18
nqr is more than dm2,dm3,e1m2 only.
Link - 030502 @ 22:00:52
Lets have a poll: kurwa servers only or scandinavian servers only!
TiMMi - 030502 @ 22:04:34
Yeah, lets have a small vote. Lets vote for #1: Just like Nqr4-league, or #2: This new shit.
mooniz - 030502 @ 23:01:08
If we (cmf) prac like hell, but we prac ONLY dm3. Then what you are saying, we would also kick ass in dm2 & e1m2, since we already KNOW those maps? Imo we would maybe win in dm3, but get raped in dm2 & e1m2 by some clans which prac all the three maps. Now when we have eight maps... I think it would be more wise to bring in the CMT maps like one or two per season. Like now we could play with dm2+dm3+e1m2 and maybe cmt1 (which i like :)). And then next season add some more maps to that, or replace cmt1 with some map if people dislike it.
ParadokS - 030502 @ 23:03:08
Maps from hell, that noone wanna play except clans playing their homemap. or smaller map pool, with maps that all can say ok they r not perfect, but they r at least all ok 4on4 maps. i still firmly believe that we made right decision, and a good compromise. This won't be changed, so just deal with it. Maps are fairly easy to learn, but it will take as long as big three maps to develop tactics and stuff. Diffrence from this and eXmX maps is that this is smaller map group, that is dedicated for 4on4, and not a large ammount of singleplayer games, where as each map belongs as homemap for 1 clan. Problem is there is not enough quakers and tournaments. So u can't just choose what u where u wanna play, and in what competetions. So if u still stick around in QW scene, then u know the rules. This is scene with constant problems, nagging but also developing. Untill something really innovative happends, and we get miracle, such as QWTV and quake make quake1 freeware, we will still be super small scene. And relatively few ppl are making all things happend. Leauges/tournaments/client developing. Take away that handfull of ppl and u got _NOTHING_ 2 ppl control the vast majority of servers in se/fi. few admins control only league in scandinavia. These ppl linked together is all fundament u got for even having a scene. I know its been said before, that u should show not little, but lot more appreciation. This is RIDDECIOUSLY SMALL SCENE.. ppl would piss all over us if it wasnt because this game is 'legendary' as first cool online 3d FPS game, If they arent already. We r just some ppl and few quakers think its still fun to have competetions, events, and quaking in generel. competeing with fellow quakers, having fun or getting raped and get piss angry, just to sit down next day and give it another try. Not sure where i am heading with this =) just wanted to lift something of my chest i guess. Keep saying something is bad, and it really will be bad.
Link - 030502 @ 23:06:12
I dont think that clans that are so skilled as CMF is on dm2, e1m2, dm3 ... ever will be raped on those maps. There is a limit to evolution on those maps as well, in case you taught otherwise. As long as CMF plays QW active, on no matter what map, you will always be fresh, have good aim etc etc. So if you dont play tb3 all summer, and starts to play them a couple of times before NQR5, ye, then i believe a skilled clan like CMF, will still rock on tb3 ... why? coz you have played them 234242342 times already.
ParadokS - 030502 @ 23:10:48
In addition I would like to appoligize for any(or many) bad phrased senteneses and poor spelling. And to those 'conservative' quakers outthere, who think its a sinn to ban qizmo+qwcl/mqwcl or replace original id1 maps with cmt maps i can only say this. QW is living on life support already. What we do with scene wont change much. Worst thing that can happend is that less than those 10 servers occupied daily will be reduced to 5. In best case, we make something good, even better. Maybe more players wanna give it a shot with quakeworld. Spectating cool QW events with few houndred observers, and live commentary has big effect on outsiders, even if in relaity its just a game with 8 players on the internet, side by side with 10 million other gamers playing other games. Point is, i think scene is so small, that its not just option to experimentate and develop, but also duty. Again, we r not ruining anything. If anything we r trying to make something very old, and in worlds eyes, already dead, into something worth being a part of.
lolish - 030503 @ 00:32:27
CMT Sucks fat balls
Link - 030503 @ 00:43:52
I better track that IP and hunt you down!
Goljat - 030503 @ 01:10:24
Sure its ok to keep 10shit eXmY maps, because all clans skip those anyway and play just tb3, but now there is a bigger chance that clans choose a cmt map. You whine about cmt maps, because you have to play other maps more than tb3.
billy - 030503 @ 01:24:18
lol 5 exmy maps = 5 cmt maps , i dont see the difference, only thing that most ppl KNOW exmy's and MOST PPL DONT KNOW CMT'S!!!! THATS A FACT :E
seek - 030503 @ 02:54:12
who killed qw?
Link - 030503 @ 03:13:34
ToT did
znappe - 030503 @ 03:21:05
true billy.. and plz mongoljat stfu.. let paradoks / link speak for the cmt-side.. you are just damaging their case.
Nocturnal - 030503 @ 03:40:30
who picked out the cmt maps?
kimbo - 030503 @ 03:43:01
dont kill qw with your fucking shitmaps.. big 3 will win
Link - 030503 @ 03:44:44
znappemongo: I really want Goljat to speak about the cmt maps, he has actually tried them out, in a serios matter, in contrast to you, who how not even DLed them yet.
znappe - 030503 @ 03:50:52
shut up lars-erik, you are just whining at me cuz i beat u at dm6 2 years ago :/// i love u 2 bitch so shut ya fucking mouth homo :< best wishes /THE MAN, TEEEEEEEEEEH FUCKING MEEEEEEEE
Eta-Beta - 030503 @ 05:13:13
Link, end aint that big... I mean the height in several big rooms... extremely boring. Like the room on cmt1 with the ring... Can't be more boring than that room.
Goljat - 030503 @ 06:26:55
dm3 penta?
Anonym Melker - 030503 @ 07:16:54
Samgorod - 030503 @ 08:42:15
Go znappe go! :)
HangTime - 030503 @ 10:08:58
mmm I'm wondering why we can't just keep NQR-CMT tournament. As link says, then people that want to play CMT maps in a league still can. It's like with sexuality; don't have a problem with homosexuals, but I wouldn't want them coming round my house expecting to do me up the ass. Let them do that (playing cmt maps) amongst themselves.
HangTime - 030503 @ 10:10:12
ParadokS - 030503 @ 12:03:48
And ofcourse noone read or understand what i said. still yabbing on about maps =)
SLB - 030503 @ 12:55:39
QW need new maps, I'm "%?"#%"#? tired of dm3.
HangTime - 030503 @ 13:02:14
I read it. My understanding of it, is that you say that QW scene is tiny and hence players have no choice what to do, they have to just accept whatever the all-powerful admins decree. I don't think that's a valid reason for players not to voice their opinions however. Look back in history... things sometimes change based on these opinions (e.g reduced map pool for nqr4 compared to nqr2). Also just because I accept something (rules of NQR league) doesnt mean I have to like them all. The decision about maps won't change, so what, decision about mqwcl being banned in smackdown was never gonna be reversed during sd3 and people still like to argue the case :)
uiG - 030503 @ 13:42:29
Nah, lets seperate nqr in nqr/cmt and the usual nqr, i think thats the better solution! //uiG ps sup with a nqr 2on2 league? (:
Link - 030503 @ 13:48:54
When I look back in SD and NQR history, or any QW league for that matter, have anyone even TRIED to play on custom maps? Correct me if I am wrong, but you did so in the UK, and it worked out pretty good? Why should it not work here? Why can't we try it? Everyone with an IQ over 50 understands that these are quality maps for 4on4, so it comes down to attitude, rite? And if you hate it so much, why dont just vote for the system with tb3 as random map, and then you got almost the same as NQR4. If you had used all that "whining" energy on learning cmt maps instead, you would have knew them all by now :|
Link - 030503 @ 13:50:23
Why cant we do a NQR league with cmt maps and do a NQR/exmx league instead uig?
uiG - 030503 @ 13:57:01
I dont cry, hm yeah in UKCL we played the ukdm maps. hm, maybe lets try it with the cmt maps, maybe it helps also to integrate some more "noobs" into such a nqr system.
uiG - 030503 @ 13:58:35
and this would be pretty cool..
killis - 030503 @ 14:56:31
oh, well, yes we have tried to play custom maps, and we (many of us) didnt like them... cant you admins just accept that? and yes we have played all the maps over 10 times and we still dont like them... the frags are too low :| example: (link had played that map 100 times, that was my first time, ez)
Eta-Beta - 030503 @ 15:00:56
"If you had used all that "whining" energy on learning cmt maps instead, you would have knew them all by now :| " Just because you know them by heart doesn't mean you like them. You may work that way Link, everyone doesnt.
Eta-Beta - 030503 @ 15:01:54
Link - 030503 @ 13:50:23 "Why cant we do a NQR league with cmt maps and do a NQR/exmx league instead uig? " Sounds like a great idea since it's the same thing. So yeah, why don't you? zZZzZZz
letrev - 030503 @ 15:24:40
:))))))))))))))))) <----- WILL DO BETTER NEXT NQR
billy - 030503 @ 16:00:45
why not let ppl vote on every aspect of the league, DEMOCRACY OWNS YOO, then noone would whine about bad settings cause they would have their input into it :(
manu - 030503 @ 16:02:10
para says: "This won't be changed, so just deal with it" My why of dealing with this is telling u i dont like the decicion. Even tho its a small scene i think the players opionions should matter, perhaps evenmore. I really appreciate the work u NQR admins do, you are doing a good job! But if feels like u made yer decicion based on personal opinions and not what the majority of the players thought, is that a way to lead a group/scene/land ?
Link - 030503 @ 16:05:07
Nice killis, I am sure it was not luck, you seem to rock on that map! You say "we" have tried to play custom maps", could you plz specifie who "we" are and could you specifie what custom 4on4 maps "we" have tried? Thanks. The fragcount is low? Ok, here we go with avg. frags per play in CMT league and NQR4: E1M2: 323.1 - DM2: 321.8 - CMT3: 316.2 - CMT2: 300.0 - CMT4: 299.2 - CMT1: 280.6 - DM3: 259.5 - CMT5: 221.0. And as you know, CMT5 has been made smaller, so I expect a 50-100 increase in frags on that map. It seems that DM3 sucks pretty much killis :| To low frags :| I also want to point out that that ppl do not know the best tactics on the CMT maps yet, so free spawnfrags and easy frags etc is not happening on the CMT maps yet, even so, they are much higher in fragcount than DM3. I expect when ppl know them better, we will see fragcounts as high as DM2 and E1M2. Oh, and killis, you have not played ONE particular CMT map more than 10 times, thats bullshit and you know it :) And next you time you want to make a valid argument, be sure to do your research first: "the frags are too low". gg. Eta: many ppl are whining yet they have not tried it, even YOU think that is a lot of whine? :)
Sam the Gorod - 030503 @ 16:12:07
Heh Hangtime rulz :) Paradocks yeah keep on dreaming of hundreds of paradoks fans speactating your every move 24/7 it won't happen sorry... ;) You want credit and appreciation? NQR is the only real 4on4 qw league left... You have the monopoly... You don't give a fuck what ppl think... You do as you please and change the rules as you like them... No voting for anything that really matters... You have the appreciation and gratitude for this season. But who gives a fuck about yeasterday when there seems to be no tomorrow in qw... And yes there is a limit when appreciation turns to ass licking... So its more effective to pronounce kind words rarely... You should think that silence is the sing of acceptance and appreciation :) Yeah lets have exmx tourney for next season that would save something and oldschool woudn't be entirely empty handed at fall... I have played some cmt maps a lot in ffa at russian server Elvis Victims at this spring... some times its nice to have a little change for the usual edome large carnage, but the best ffa server is without any doubt X4all! ;P Those CMT maps just lack something compared to exmx... maybe time will bring that something (or not!) but you shouldn't force ppl to play them...
killis - 030503 @ 16:13:08
Link, please stop using your energy for 'defending' your favourite maps, use it to create two leagues instead.
billy - 030503 @ 16:13:33
Ye billy, and when ppl dont get their voted map inn, they start to whine again: "lol, that map sucks" zZzZzZz. Manu: we wanted fewer maps in the map pool. We ENJOY the eXmX maps very much, but no one plays them more than about 20 times per season, thats about 3 clans who plays it regulary. So if we want a smaller map pool, we must let someone's home map out. If one map gets 10 votes, and another 8, it is pretty LOL to let the 8 voted map out, does not say ANYTHING about the map iself. If like 40 clans wanted a special eXmX map, and they actually PLAYED it in the league, ye, then I agree of coz that that map should stay, coz SO many clans play it. This is only happening with tb3, you DO understand that? So then we had no choice if we wanted a smaller map pool. Listen, I love e1m5, I think it is superior to dm2, but I sacrificed it. It is the HT argument: I want that Ice Cream, but that other Ice Cream is better :| Well, that is what happend here. Let's have some more whine and go for 200 comments :)
Link - 030503 @ 16:15:34
That was not billy, it was me :) I just dreamt of billy, could not get him out of my mind :)
Link - 030503 @ 16:19:01
killis: stop coming with arguments that is NOT TRUE, why do you do that? are you retarded? you say that the frag count is to low, when IT IS NOT, just proven in the comments. Can you get more owned than that? You dont have to piss me off =)
killis - 030503 @ 16:20:50
Did I piss you off? Mission accomplished then, have a nice life.
Link - 030503 @ 16:23:11
Sam the Gorod: do you really think that these decisions are some ego-random-our-league-so-fuck-off-community decisions? Then I feel sorry for you. I also feel sorry for ppl who do nothing else than whining and ranting on admins, one example being riker who just throws shit every time he can, with no other intention than just that. Tragic that ppl behave like that, just coz they dont get their favorite candy. No wonder we got a small scene :/
Link - 030503 @ 16:25:57
killis: you are getting owned hard on a argument, and your answer to it is: "use your energy to blablabla". Why do you spend energy on telling lies?
Finns RQ - 030503 @ 16:45:32
5 CMT Maps e bajs, Ta med en liten prutt map om de skall med.
manu - 030503 @ 16:49:52
Sam of Gorad, i agree with u to some point. Its really wrong when a leauge have monoply and the dont listen to the players opinions. I just wonder why we are allowed to vote for pointsystem, i think nqradmins could decide that. SIMPLE SOLUTION: let there be a vote, who are then to complain ?
znappe - 030503 @ 16:53:43
wow finally link said something thats true! riker is &%#%(/ lamer :p
Spd - 030503 @ 17:01:07
why oooh why dont some one of the vast majority (spelling?) of qw players who cant STAND to play cmt maps 3-6 times in one season a league with just the big3?
znappe - 030503 @ 17:02:41
anyone interested in such a thing? msg me at irc .. [b]znappe`
ztranger - 030503 @ 17:14:36
ffs.. we are a small comunity.. and everyone is whining.. that can fuck up this small scene.. nqr run 2 leagues simultaniously.. nqr and nqr/cmt.. it could run 2 or more simultaniously again ?.. another idea is that someone creates an only tb3 league.. it could be as much elite as sd or nqr.. as goljat said.. sd may run invite only... nqr may run with cmt mas.. another league could run only tb3.. another eXmX..that will make more clanwars... ppl could be happy in only participating on their favourite(s) league(s).. so if you all stop throwing shits to someone else and start or whatever the hell do to make this community happy.. or united.. pls do.. instead of whining and wasting time with .. cant even find a word.. well.. i thouht to make one td3 league.. i just dont have the means.. nor someone's help or whatever.. at least dont know noone.. i'll start soon a league only for my coutry community.. it is hard to do that because as far as i can remember.. no league here reached the end.. and noadays we have a few qw'ers in active.. but at least i'll try to get something up.. i think someone could try something like that too.. i'm not against cmt nor in favour.. well..actualy they are made for 4on4 and well designed indeed... here i can only prac it local bunnyhooping.. well.. do whatever you do but think first in this small scene.. we make it live so far.. let's try to make it live longer :>
znappe - 030503 @ 17:23:31
I could help with a tb3-league.. I have worked LPL/NAS/SmackDown in the past so.. as I said, msg me if someone wanna start working on a new league.
havz - 030503 @ 17:33:10
cmt maps is ZZZzzz, i think that a lot of ppl will not participate in NQR5 due to the introducing of CMT maps, i thought the NQR-CMT was for the ones who are interested in playing those maps.
znappe - 030503 @ 17:37:21
well me and ztranger are now talking about a tb3-league.. if someone wanna help msg any of us @ irc, thanks in advance!
Link - 030503 @ 17:40:32
Havz: are you going to participate in the CMT #2?
matilda - 030503 @ 17:57:15
oh a qw revolution, everyone gather some big sticks and lets run through the street kicking windows in and throwing blood puddings at mcdonalds
xhrl - 030503 @ 18:12:57
hehe, ht i enjoyed your analogy about playing qw on id maps and cmt as being like to screwing as a heterosexual or as a homosexual. Yet the point you press is a false analogy. For playing qw tdm is playing qw tdm whether it be on dm3 or cmt 1 -- the game doesn't alter as such. The difference you seem to stress is where you play the game, not actually playing a completely different game altogether:) Now if you were to compare playing qw to playing boy-george's cs-tainted game of hide-behind-a-box-and peek-out-occasionally, then I'd buy your analogy:) Btw, I am surprised all 5 cmt maps were selected. I thought only cmt1-4 would be used? cmt5 as it looks now is totally unknown: bear in mind the cmt5 that was used in a very limited way during the cmt-league is NOT the same as this one. perhaps holding off on using this version of cmt5 would be both fair and reasonable (giving players a better chance to test it). good cheer, xhrl
Goljat - 030503 @ 18:24:07
do you want to see that top clans play their games on e3m6 or cmt1/3? People just whine about that there are more than 3maps, nothing wrong with the cmt maps like you want to see another cmt league. Let's play one season with cmt maps then remove bad ones (if there is) and take back good eXmY ok? so its like dm2,dm3,e1m2 + 3cmt + 3 other eXmY. This is now fourth season with eXmY, so one season with cmt maps won't kill you and there is another season of smackdown coming so you will see there only 5maps.
lusive - 030503 @ 19:35:33
cant someone make a poll, at and see what that majority thinks about this?
lusive - 030503 @ 19:37:48
cant someone make a poll, at and see what that majority thinks about this? <br> <br> but maybe just the ones that are struggling the most against cmt will be the ones that are voting in the poll, they who keep quiet, do they accepts the changes?
Kryten - 030503 @ 20:00:59
I think its worth pointing out here that there is perhaps a slightly unbalanced depiction of people's attitudes coming out of this thread... A lot of ppl I have spoken to are happy about the decision, only the ones who are really against are speaking out here.
mae - 030503 @ 20:18:23
if u wanna make those maps popular... the maps should be available at almost all servers i?d say... and ESPECIALLY on xs ffa , cos ppl WONT wanna prac it on lh and its better to ffa a little before playing 4o4?s :) and most important, there are several old versions of those maps, especially on EA (which seems to be one of the most important ones atm) , so this all should be solved as soon as possible
Link - 030503 @ 22:18:19
Usually ppl who dont say anything agrees or dont care. If that is the case here, the "whiners" are outnumbered in a big way.
199th comment - 030503 @ 22:35:02
billy - 030503 @ 22:38:58
lol link i think more ppl whine that these cmt maps suck NOW than ppl would whine about their exmy map not getting voted in , in a regular vote :E
lusive - 030503 @ 22:39:04
as said, do those who just say nothing agree, or those who dont care just smile happy and play it anyways?, and as said the whiners may seem like they are "more" ppl just cus of their whine, oh and btw, plz keep some eXmX maps :) whine ownz (c) hagge
mx - 030503 @ 22:55:50
There will be a difference, think of it. In nqr, when we we're all placed in div's etc, we _KNEW_ what the clan's home map was, and generally there was'nt more than 3 (?) exmx maps being used in each division. Most did'nt care, and would'nt even bother practicing it due to hope of winning 2-1. But now, we have the possibilty of FIVE maps getting thrown at us every single game, and i dont think every one wants to learn 5 new maps. No one seem's to think of the newish clans either in this map lay out, new clans have it hard enough learning the big 3, now they have to learn another 5 maps ? lol ? CMT maps are fine maps, but for fuck sakes, 5 new maps to learn tp on even when some clans cant tp properly on the big three (and no i dont mean div4+clans) Maybe introducing 2 cmt maps at the most would of been a good idea not 5, 5 is way too much. but this comment will possibly seen as WHINE whine etc, its not, its just an opinion. As others have said, let NQR cmt play for a few season's and let people get used to it, jesus it's not like their's a big gigantic rush to get these maps known by tomorow is there ? If i aint broken, dont fix it ? :))))
fix - 030503 @ 23:29:35
i would go with razor about voting..and then big three + 5cmt sure is too much for those noob clans which there is very much these days? and most likely they wont spend their free time during the summer to learn them out either, scene will be idle couse of vacations anyway? i dont have anything against cmt maps thou, they brought some fresh air to game for sure..but i'll still kinda miss exmy maps for the same was always fun to play something new..cant understund either why not to allow some exmy maps too, whats the harm of giving some joy to clans who like to play doesnt cost anything to have some 'idle maps', if that is right term to use..according to links previous post about exmy's populaty it's (is that even word?)..wider map pool with random map from b3 could please everyone. forcing ppl to learn cmt might not be smartes thing to do..admins could pay some attention for scenes the end its them who play the 'importants' role of this thing, read: they play the fucking matches running the clans etc :)..OFcoz that is nothing compering to running a WHOLE league gg admins ;) , but i think you get what im chasing here...but do what you want..i dont think ill be here anymore after summer anyway..since im loosing my connection in the end of this month and not planning to get new one..atleast not now :), but dont take away the joy of the fresh players they are what scene needs most..look forward and we might have more elete clans than 4 as it apear atm which is very bad in my opinion. zzz im out :) LinkdokS world is not what ppl want or is it?
fix - 030503 @ 23:33:59
linkdoks world is bad couse it so fucking small 2 ppl..or are they the same person? :HHH and mx i think you got point there, no whine
Goljat - 030504 @ 00:26:09
last time there was a poll and over 60% wanted to play cmt maps already in nqr4, so i guess its higher now ->
mooniz - 030504 @ 00:58:36
Yes, but only 30% wants to add ALL cmt maps. Majority (40%) doesnt want to any cmt maps. Suprise suprise, CMT league winners SLACKERS are so happily promoting CMT maps to NQR :) what, you dont wanna play dm2 as decider anymore? ;)
znappe - 030504 @ 00:59:40
u cant really draw any conclusions about a poll from slackers homepage since there is a big number of players who dislikes sr or just dont even bother to visit your site.. so if you gonna do a poll do it here and not on some lame clans own site cuz then it just means SHIT :/
znappe - 030504 @ 01:18:16
mooniz must be my idol
xhrl - 030504 @ 01:25:03
rofl @ the new phrase the "linkdokS world"! gg, fix:) btw, fix, you better stamp your name on the big Q a few times before you leave! One of the major difficulties with having all 5 cmt maps being included concerns the commentary of playoffs and important matches....I mean who actually feels knowledgeable enough to say anything insightful about the gameplay on them? HT could say a few general things perhaps....but beyond that I think it will be challenging to find good commentating for cmt-map games.
Link - 030504 @ 01:35:00
Fix misses the exmx maps, but does he play them? No. So plz explain why you miss them. Mx: you will for sure know what home map your opponent will choose if they are good at one particular cmt map, it is not gonna be any different just coz the name is cmt and not exmx, ppl will not choose a cmt map they dont know, so you WILL know what map your nmy knows best. It is not like it is close games on exmx either, many exmx maps are total rapes just coz the other clans dont know it good enough. Fix: dont be as lame as certain DS players and start to yell SR league, I expect you to have more IQ than them, dont dissapoint me plz :) Only one exmx map was played in div. 1, yet division 1 players whine when we take exmx away, why? you never play them. Is it because you actually now realize that you infact havet to play something else than tb3 now? you dont want any other map to "challenge" tb3?
mrlame - 030504 @ 02:16:26
after u have played qw for 6-7 years its no joy left to learn new maps good so i rather play them i already now and forcing players to play something they don't want to beacuse some admins like cmt maps is a fatal mistake and u are also talking about learning those cmt maps in the summer?, who is active qw player during summer? the most players isn't for sure i dont understand why to bring in all 5 cmt maps and make them "hardly known" instead of using 2cmt so u can concentrate on them 2 and learn them good so u can actually see some good games there instead of usual ffa games over and out
Goljat - 030504 @ 03:15:41
over 50% wants to play cmt maps in nqr, you are talking like everyone choose cmt map as homemap, is that bad thing then?
Link - 030504 @ 03:26:54
Whats the difference with having exmx or cmt, if tb3 are random maps? Are they not all "cp" maps?
Sassa - 030504 @ 04:13:18
I dont get it<br> why dont u guys just leave to see what happends? you also got smackdown6 (hopefully) after summer!<br> you can play in both leagues and try them out and if NQR5 didnt worked out as good as you thought then there will be a change, but dont be so damn scared of loosing.. its just a game! I know that some of you will say: "fun to play suxxy maps?" etc.. <br>but those maps are really fun and I dont believe LinkdokS choosed those maps in personal-favour!<br> who said mqwcl would be baned from nqr5? <-- that would be a bad desicion by the NQR-crew!<br> and Hangtime, I think ppl will enjoy CMT as much as they enjoy tb3, they are just afraid of loosing. With some practice I dont think any clan will own another clan (same div) more than we have seen on dm2! bah gotta go zzz got fotball game 10:30
mx - 030504 @ 04:53:13
"ppl will not choose a cmt map they dont know, so you WILL know what map your nmy knows best. " Link, we got flung onto e3m1 ffs? :) So that is wrong :) No sassa, say if the league goes idle and people get pissed off with cmt maps, gg qw ? i don't think such a large leap of faith should be taken as YOU all say ITS A SMALL COMMUNITY, so for fuck sakes take small steps and not huge ones. I never said the cmt maps suck, they are ok, BUT its the hassle of learning 5 new maps. some people learn maps faster than others, and again the new clans turning up think to them selves "yay we dont even know "the big 3" maps yet we have to learn another 5 maps!! FUN!" no it is'nt, it is akward and it'll result in them not giving a fuck which is what we (?????????????????) dont want, is'nt it ? Having 2 different leagues, such as Proper NQR and CMT nqr rocks, u have a choice of learning or training on "tb3". Also, admins no offence but you are all singing off cmt, if so, how come CMT went idle ? a good few clans drop'd from the season, not sure how many as i did'nt follow it well. Do you want NQR to be a flop, is it a rish to be taken ? And Golo, just because slackers host's a poll, does'nt mean it is right. For all you know, people could of voted more than once, and there is a few SR haters. That poll has no meaning whatsoever got to do with QW community. SR is only a clan, nothing else. i do think a _VOTE_ (!) should be used, ask each clan which 3 or 5 maps should be used, add the toll up and then determine the maps. Now, if people whine WHINE WHINE about which maps are in it, so what ?? it was a democratic decision, admins deciosion, so if they whine laugh at them. gg (ps NQR 4 owned)
manu - 030504 @ 05:07:54
<irony> ParadokS world domination, controlling our lifes.. controlling where we play(servers), controlling maps/rules (nqr), controlling what client to use (fuh,nqr5), controlling who's allowed to play(ban etc), controlling media, what we read (, etc) GG =) </irony> whats next ?
manu - 030504 @ 05:10:58
state controlled servers to the ppl
ParadokS - 030504 @ 08:00:50
<b>mx:</b> vote poll on slackers is IP dependent, so dont think ppl went through various proxies, just to vote on a clan poll.. although we got alot of votes on all our polls. like 200-300+ <b>manu:</b> Ye, i took initiative to get more servers for quakers in scandinavia. Who u want to admin them ? oddjob ? I dont control what client ppl should use, if 100% use mqwcl we would probably not use fuhquake, even after promotion etc. I don't control who plays in NQR, i just voulenteerd as admin for NQR to help with practical work also. kicks and bans of players and/or clans r solely decided by all admins in NQR. Yes i also took initiative to put up an international QW site, like many other before me. why they werent success or lived more than few months i dont know. Whats next ? I don't know. Maybe more servers for QW scene, and developing page. Maybe new activities such as steady commentary events and running more fun interactive stuff from regi. And ofcourse support other projects. How about you manu, what did u contribute with ?
manu - 030504 @ 08:13:07
its was <irony> as stated! you doing a good job! and i havent contributed with anything to the scene, except my presence(dunno if thats good or bad). Hope we could get back to the discussion, think im off to bed now
fix - 030504 @ 10:36:47
link: i sure did play them, 5 times during last year and everytime i was kinda happy :) althou we didnt have success it sure was fun and fresh to play something 'new', same with cmt. but as you said there are ppl who playes them much more than i could imagine how they are feeling about this..dont take away their brand new ferraries and give 5 ladas as a return..give both instead. and i didnt say anything about nqr being bg]SR[ league? or did i , havent read all the backround stuff but somehow i get the feeling that its you and para vs scene at this cmt thing..of coz there are others for them myself..but still there could be some candy for 'haters' too, i dont mean to whine or anything just giving my opinions out and i think i got right to do that. who cares..thats totaly different thing
Samgorod - 030504 @ 10:41:44
Hehe Fix yeah linkquake and paraworld ;) So your going to ban mqwcl now too? Last nail in the coffin... Can't even play fuh because my mouse won't work properly with fuh... (Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 USB) 5 buttons = 4 complex shooting binds... Qizmo will go too? No more funny voice demo recordings :/ Smartest thing you admins could do now would be to show your greatness and work towards to some kind of compromise.... You should know by now that this one sided decision CMT only... will do damage... But negotiations or reconsideration seems to be too much to ask... So you think the minority resists... You have the means to make reliable vote... Why not make one? You will do as you please anyway, but it would be good to see what the odds are... First vote then if the result is against your decision you would reconsider... and vote here in nqr site.. not some clan site...
sexC - 030504 @ 11:55:42
goljat: having a poll on the slackers site about cmt maps is like having a poll at mcdonald's asking whether people prefer them to burger king. nevertheless I reckon that people should give it a chance, because after all what's the worst thing that can happen? it fucked up and you go back to the old thing, where as on the other hand if it turns into a big success you've gained something that means a lot in a minor community such as ours. I see no prospect of a disturbing trend in activity among the players, just the way no other changes in the community before has changed the acitivty. Give it a go and I bet that by the end of nqr5 you'll see that the cmt maps will have been played heaps more than what the exmy maps got played this season. after all nqr is about playing something ADDITIONAL to tb3, and therefore I strongly suggest the sd admins to consider a non-invite league, since there's obviously a fair few clans that would prefer their system. finally (this goes mainly to xhrl but also other people that are doubtful about cmt5) I see the new cmt5 giving off a really high fragcount, as well as being a big success as soon as people get used to it.
vickers - 030504 @ 13:11:53
possible solution: keep the current nqr4 maps (tb3 + some exmy levels) and add the cmt maps either. this way there`ll be a fairly large map pool and NOONE should complain about missing his/her favorite camping position.
Link - 030504 @ 13:19:28
Mx: it is easier for you to deal with 10 exmx maps than 5 cmt maps? You know all those exmx maps?
-insane- - 030504 @ 13:20:07
Allow 100 fps in nqr cuz 100 fps IZ TEH $ :<
SLB - 030504 @ 13:26:13
Why do you want a small map pool?
billy - 030504 @ 13:35:38
OMG THIS THING IS SICK FROM THE BEGINNING, it is CLEAR that cmt maps is a setting dictated by the admins, NO ONE ASKED FOR THEM :E bg cant wait for smackdown
Link - 030504 @ 13:43:41
To all the "new" clans that still are learning the big 3: you really think it is better with 10 exmx maps? A lot of the exmx maps are easy to lock down, like dm2 for instance. The cmt maps are like e1m2 and dm3, where lockdowns are much harder. They are also very good balanced. So if you are a noob on exmx, like many clans are, then you will for sure enjoy cmt maps more, because you will get more frags on those, and by that you will learn it quicker. So the argument that some clans are still learning tb3 and then it is wrong to bring in 5 new ones is really lol to me, when we infact REDUCE the map pool and we in addition to that bring in maps that you wont get spawnraped on. I taught that was a good thing for noobs.
-insane- - 030504 @ 13:54:10
I want dm2 dm3 and e1m2 B()
Link - 030504 @ 13:57:16
Yepp, you got that, just vote for tb3 as random map and you get that insane, just like nqr4.
pep - 030504 @ 14:24:50
obvioulsy _quite alot_ of people don't want to play cmt maps. so why not run nqr-cmt again? Forcing players to play maps they dislike is not something that the community gains from, nor does the community gain from forcing people to play with certain clients, that a few people favour. I still think the majority plays with mqwcl (not sure about that one tough).
kryten - 030504 @ 14:40:10
billy - dont talk nonsense.
Link - 030504 @ 14:43:51
pep, but why is it ok to have exmx in the map pool then when most ppl dont play it? Is it the fact that div.1 players dont whine about exmx coz they know they wont play it anyway? Or is that statement totally wrong?
Link - 030504 @ 14:49:25
pep, there are a total of 621 players and 67 clans playing in NQR. I only see maximum 30-40 ppl screaming in here, where are the other 500+ ppl? They dont say anything, so they agree or dont care?
manu - 030504 @ 15:42:52
if u really care what pll think, have a VOTE ?
manu - 030504 @ 15:44:20
did u have equally amount of "whine" before nqr4 ? PLS FIX A VOTE TO SEE WHAT PPL THINK, IF U CARE
stal - 030504 @ 15:59:24
Just wanted to say that Fudoh generally is looking forward to nqr5 with cmt maps and appreciate greatly all the work that is beeing laid down by admins to make this possible! But, we'll miss exmx. What's wrong with a rare lockdown once in a while.. does it happen so much more often on the exmx maps than on "The Big 3"? Just adds spice to the game in my book, knowing that it's possible to have a "personal homemap". All this about cmt beeing "designed for 4on4" is very nice, but personally I enjoy all nqr4 exmx maps in clangames.. designed for clanwars or not, they are fun. Sure whiners will whine when playing a non-tb3 map, but they always do. The randompicked big 3 usually makes it clear what clan is the better one anyway. Div3 Fudoh played e3m7 to learn some basic teamplay and score a few points. This worked pretty well since the mapdesign really is like a long tunnel with some twists and turns, so it's easy to know what mistakes were done.. Both new\old players enjoyed it alot. Even though we lost 2-1 in the end to better clans like griffins gossar, it felt very good knowing our hard work had paid off. Now, I allready hear cmt defenders proclaim that "if you work as hard on a cmt map as you did on e3m7 .. " etc. In answer to that, we _will_ try to learn the new maps, but would still like to play a few games on e3m7.. AND other nqr4 exmx maps.. Multiple choice sounds sweet to me. If not in this season, but maybe in nqr6 when people know cmt better, we'd sure like to play a few nqr games on exmx again.
ParadokS - 030504 @ 16:10:45
Yes, we had alot of whine before NQR4 regarding what maps should be included. Some clans thought it was unfair to let other clans get bad eXmX maps, because they wanted it as homemap, when others couldn't. So we had to put back in some eXmX maps, that we KNEW would not get chosen by ANY other clans. All that people can really seem to agree on is that TB3 should be included. Most of the clans having an eXmX map as homemap don't enjoy playing against opponents eXmX maps, just as little as 'elite' clans enjoy it. But because "you" have your weird homemap that others don't play, where you feel you have an advantage, you have to let others have the same priviledge. Same time we all know that eXmX will never reach the level that tb3 has. It will never be considered for playoffs/finals maps. You don't see any playoffs clans choosing those maps. We have an idea why that is, and we want to try something new. Noone pracs exmx maps on servers. They are only played in official maps, when some clan chose their 5 year old homemap, that opponents still don't like, or know how to play on. Some great mappers made this nice map package dedicated to 4on4, and us admins, along the side of many quakers, believe they have great potentiel. Yes we had a CMT tournament, but that just isn't enough, to get a realistic picture of how the CMT maps will do seriously. That is one of the reasons we are 'forcing' you to play them. But from what I see, most whine is not about eXmX maps being removed, but more that all 5 CMT maps are included so soon. I know it's a fairly poor argument to say that you can just practice during summer, when we all know its least active period of QW scene. But I just don't think we have other options if we really wanna put the new maps to the test. If we include 2 or 3 eXmX maps, you will get 8 other clans whining like this, because THEIR eXmX map didn't get included, and why should other clans get their homemap that other clans don't want to play. I do believe its only way to go, with excluding all eXmX and adding CMT. However I have also read all the feedback here, and talked with admins, and we are also discussing diffrent possibilities. How many CMT maps we should include. If we should have a vote on that. Let clans or players vote. But I don't think its a bad thing to try this out for real, and I don't believe that this scene should take it so harsh. I don't believe the scene is really that happy and in need of continueing playing eXmX maps, when they aren't practiced on servers either. They are such a small fraction compared to TB3.
spokz - 030504 @ 16:15:15
cmt suck =[
ParadokS - 030504 @ 16:56:26
Further more I believe the stats speak for themself: [E1M5 - 9] [E1M6 - 1] [E2M2 - 6] [E2M7 - 22] [E3M1 - 11] [E3M2 - 8] [E3M3 - 25] [E3M6 - 6] [E3M7 - 22] ---- [DM2 - 195] [DM3 - 178] [E1M2 - 130] ---- What a patheticly low ammount of times played for 7 out of 9 eXmX maps. Even the last 2 are only played 22 and 25 times. I mean, come on! How can you even defend that so much. And the maps that were considered 'good' 4on4 maps of eXmX, namely E2M2 and E3M6 are played 6 times each. Most of those eXmX maps are only played because one or max 2 clans choose them. And we have ~60 clans.
billy - 030504 @ 17:05:57
ok i hope you will draw the same conclusions from stats when cmt maps will be played 20 times at most next season :)
ParadokS - 030504 @ 17:22:39
Time will tell, although I have a very good feeling that CMT maps will be played quite a lot. They are great maps, so why shouldn't they ? =)
billy - 030504 @ 17:25:22
PLZ ALL INTERESTED PPL VOTE HERE : i didnt use the option Big ThreeOnly cause nqr is about adding new maps as someone said ;)
ParadokS - 030504 @ 17:30:53
I would not advice ppl to take that poll too seriously. It don't contain all the options we consider, and it's our believe its too early to make a decision based on such an external poll.
caspar - 030504 @ 17:59:17
>>Same time we all know that eXmX will never reach the level that tb3 has. It will never be considered for playoffs/finals maps - tvs chose e3m7 vs la in nqr playoffs didnt they? and at least e2m7/e3m3/e3m7 seems to have been played by at least 2 different teams as a homemap, isnt that enough to consider keeping them?
Link - 030504 @ 18:02:43
billy: nice poll =D stal: I am not sure Ax3, Maniacs and CB2 enjoyed e3m7 :) But I do agree that div. 3 was special when it comes to exmx, many clans there knew them quite well and there was some good exmx fights there.
Link - 030504 @ 18:07:24
Caspar: so you think that we shall please those 7 teams and not the rest?
razor - 030504 @ 19:02:43
i totally agree with fix... why should the maps get kicked out just cause they were played 10-20 times? imo thats pretty much actually... just 1 time is enough imo.. then there is maybe 2 satisfied clans after a game on that map... and why then remove that map for next season and eliminate the chance for those 2 clans to have that same fun game once again on that map?.. or actually those 10-15 or how many clans that have episode maps as homemaps.. i dont see why they has to be removed... but ok lets say they are removed now then.. but i at least think that ALL of the cmt maps is to much to add.. i think maybe 2 could be added... then u could concnetrate on just those 2 maps.. and it will be so much funnier to play them.. if lets say 5 different clans choose one CMT each..... clans arnt gonna have as much chance in those game cause 5 maps is to much to learn so u know them really good... in my opinion its better with 2 more maps that everyone gets to know REALLY REALLY good.. almost as tb3... thats where the fun lies.. to see who can be able to win when both of the clans know the maps really good... that wont be possible if all 5 is added believe me... the same problem is with episode maps... but those are fun cause they are original qw.. even if we know a map less good then a clan its still fun
razor - 030504 @ 19:09:22
and you say u cant have 3-3-1-0 ptsystem with tb3 as random because its about knowing ALL maps... plz give us the chance then.. the summer isnt gonna give everyone a good chance to know 5 maps really good! and not even if you participate in cmt-leuage etc and play active... its still gonna be really hard to beat a clan on its homemap.. when its 5 to choose from.. and the fun is when ALL of the 3 maps in a game can be exciting.. .. well anywway... thats what i think
ParadokS - 030504 @ 19:13:17
I don't understand your arguments. The clans playing those eXmX maps are not happy about it. Its mostly the clan that has the map as homemap that like that match. The other clan dont wanna play it, or know it that well. I would go so far that NO clans know even 3 of the exmx maps as good as tb3. And those eXmX have been here since '97. Already now, after only one season with few teams in CMT clans have tried the maps, and lot of clans know most of the maps. 7 years vs 6 months, and CMT maps has a good start. And I say again. IF CLANS R SO HAPPY ABOUT EXMX HOW COME THEY R NEVER PLAYED OUTSIDE OFFICIAL GAMES ?????? Cause no 2 clans can agree on playing eXmX. We just wanna try and testing CMT maps for real, because we have a big confidence in them.
Link - 030504 @ 19:20:43
What razor is saying is that he thinks that all clans should be able to chose freely what they want to play as home map, ergo exmx maps should be inn. Then he also says that we should only have 2 cmt maps, coz it is better if everyone learned the maps, like tb3. What do you really want razor? this was confusing :)
Link - 030504 @ 19:22:56
I think the ppl that like exmx will try to learn and play the cmt maps, coz they are more open to it, that's why they like exmx in the first place. The tb3 lovers who think it is ok with exmx coz they never get to play it anyway, will hate it, coz now the chance of playing on other maps than tb3 is much greater.
Goljat - 030504 @ 19:40:02
smackdown6 will be tb3 + 2 vote map (like last 5 seasons) and then its really boring to play in two leagues that are really same. Like nqr3 and SD5. You can vote in Smackdown tournament what maps are in and out. Mqwcl project is dead and when fuhquake get those main mqwcl features i think for league admins its easier to keep just one equal client to everyone.
razor - 030504 @ 19:53:47
paradoks: it for sure has been lots of games where both clans has enjoyed playing on a episode map.... link: i said its the same problem with episode maps.. that there maybe are to many to know... but i said i like them anyway cause its original qw... anyway i think its maybe a bit to big step as someone else said also... i mean this kind of massive map changes should only be tested in some desperate state where the tournament is going like shit... imo anyway... cause i mean now wasnt NQR4 a success? so why change it totally... a few new good things doesnt hurt.. but i think this is a too big step.. i say as i said before also... i dont dislike the idea with tb3+cmt THAT much... its pretty ok... im just viewing some opinions... and i still think it defenatly wouldnt hurt with a vote.. it dont have to be a DECISIVE vote or anything.. but just run it on too see.. and u say u are reading feedback on this thread... the best feedback is from a poll imo..
lusive - 030504 @ 19:55:57
keep tb3 + cmt as random maps, and add all thoose exmx to the map pool but not as random maps, so then ppl could play them anyways, then i think some ppl will be satisfied,
lusive - 030504 @ 19:58:22
keep tb3 + cmt as random maps, and add all thoose exmx to the map pool but not as random maps, so then ppl could play them anyways, then i think some ppl will be satisfied, not sure ppl will be to happy loose 2-1 cus of a cmt map they dident know, since now we have so good divs that are good balance in
lusive - 030504 @ 20:01:49
should be a "but im" there betwen satisfied, and not :)
mooniz - 030504 @ 20:14:12
why the hell do we need exmy or cmt maps? we have 3 great and very different maps, i think that these 3 maps are enough :) play the big three maps in nqr, and the rest maps in some CMT / EXMY tournaments...?
matte - 030504 @ 22:08:39
plz liiiv o stellan >K E F T
_|ester - 030504 @ 22:23:13
Yep. Give ppl freedom to play what they want and also give us standard 150 fps plz.
caspar - 030504 @ 23:18:30
just for the record, we played e1m6 vs gamblers almost every time we praced during nqr3 so there are some that enjoy exmy-maps outside official games :S
ZkilfinG - 030505 @ 13:45:40
Just wanted to say I look forward to nqr5 AND cmt2 and I think the admins knows what they're doing. And if all hell breaks lose and people hate the cmt maps after cmt2 and nqr5 then they probably won't be in nqr6. Or at least not all of them. I like to play exmx maps, but I still think this is for the best. And I definitley agree with the all or nothing argument. Either have ALL exmx maps, or have none. And how fun is it to play some exmy that really sucks and where you can't even find RL for half the game? If all maps should be allowed then clans should have a fixed homemap. So you KNOW what map they will "choose". And then of course TB3 as decider.
Jjonez - 030506 @ 13:55:47
its pretty ironic how the same people that whined endlessly about SD are now the ones being whined at for running another league. but at least thats what they are doing so now, and thats nice for everyone. its also very interesting to learn a whole lot of details about an upcomming SD season from someone who never basically had anything to do with it. personally, i still like NQR2 (might have been 3) best. together with the SD season running at that time it provided the best options for all qw players in europe.
ParadokS - 030506 @ 15:51:53
Well, hint hint, for more SD seasons then. Hard to please everyone with 2 projects, when u only got 1 to do it with
Legio! - 030509 @ 01:11:34
Jjonez? Who whined on SD, the NQR Crew? Im not following you there m8..
Jjonez - 030509 @ 10:38:35
nobody on the original NQR team, i guess. maybe it should have read "some of the same people". after all, not even all complainers are now helping out with NQR either, so my statement is totally fals anyway.
slabby - 030515 @ 16:03:44
dont add any new maps it sure sucks, perhaps one new and then no more. just play tb3 ffs
Chr - 030518 @ 22:55:27
I just have tp dry, wtf is this? since when aren't exmx maps a part of qw? who can say they play quake if they only can play 3-7 maps? To win this shit you only need to know 3 maps nothing more nothing less, if you are good enough on those 3 maps you'll win every match. This is like playing chess with only a king a queen and a horse?
laxr - 030518 @ 22:56:50
looool.. what happened to all exmx maps? you can't just NOT allow them. the hole part of playing quake is playing its maps. the one thing that made NQR fun was that they allowed all episode maps and not banned them like SD did. way to go, just kill qw forever!
ung - 030518 @ 23:35:33
Its so lame to ban the episodemaps. They are really fun. Ofcourse they are not so carefully planned as dm2 and dm3. e1m2 is not so carefully planned either it have just had the luck to win the crowds interest. All players doesn?t like all the maps. That is pretty obvious. And all players will not like the cmt-maps. There will be some whining about them too. Im not against adding cmt-maps. But i do not really understand why you have chose to take exmx maps away. I have read your thoughs about it but i still do not get it. I agree with chrono. "if you are good enough on those 3 maps you'll win every match" more maps makes it harder to be best. It can NOT be unlimited number of maps but i think there should be more maps to choose from. I remember when Headcharge played against gamblers in nqr2 when headcharge actually pracced gamblers homemap before. It was really nice to see how they cared. with only a few maps in the pool people wont have to devote so much time for the maps. Just rely on theres skill. Whats next. And seperate competition for exmx maps and then introduce them again just like you did with cmtmaps?
Horatio - 030824 @ 15:49:16
haha gamblers maffian avrundar =)


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